DR. TIM'S AQUATICS new product, Dr. Tim's One And Only is my suggested replacement for Bio-Spira. More info - http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/productguide/H2O-PURE_Products/H2O-PURE_Products.html which is the new website for Dr. Tim Hovanec, who was the scientist who invented the original formula for Bio-Spira, as well as the Bio-Wheel filter system. Now that Tetra has merged with Marineland, I suspect that Marineland's once decent quality products will diminish in quality. Instead of looking around for Bio-Spira, just get Dr. Tim's One And Only and use it instead.
Below is just a rough draft of recent forum posts in the AquaticLife YahooGroup which came up in this thread.. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/26973, with the new info I've learned about the "new" Bio-Spira which will be coming out soon. Of course, since these are copies of my emails, the latest posts are on top so start at the bottom if you want to read things in chronological order. I've highlighted the pertinent "Late Breaking News" as red and bold text so you can scroll down and read it much quicker. Read this entire thread for more info about Bio-Spira, the nitrogen cycle, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 11:47 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Actually, the original Bio-Spira had active strains of Nitrosomonas, Nitrospira and Nitrosospira. It was these latter two that set Bio-Spira apart... well that and the fact that it was kept refrigerated to keep the bacteria in hibernation so they'd live in the package until used. Read that long interview with Dr. Hovenac that I linked to in my previous post (copied below). I really am waiting to see how Marineland or Tetra explains that this "new" product will work and keep the bacteria alive on the shelf.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lana Gibbons
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 10:40 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
AUGH. :)
I meant "the only bacteria in Bio-spira is nitrospira, so it is missing nitrosomonas"
-Lana
> AFAIK, the only bacteria in Bio-spira is nitrosomonas (someone please
> correct me if I'm wrong here).
Carmen,
For pet and human bacteria supplements the bacteria are typically anaerobic
- they don't need oxygen to survive. I'm not so sure about septic bacteria, but it seems to me there wouldn't be that much aeration in the tank, so I'd guess it is also anaerobic.
From what I understand, aquarium bacteria is supposed to be aerobic since O2 is required for oxidizing nitrite to nitrate. What I don't understand is the difference between the standard Nitrosomonas/Nitrobacter vs. Bio-Spira which contains NitroSpira. Nitrobacter and NitroSpira basically do the same job (convert nitrite->nitrate), the only difference I can find is that NitroSpira grows slower and tends to be the nitrite oxidizing bacteria in natural samples more often than Nitrobacter. Nitrospira is slowed by high ammonia levels, which Nitrosomonas is needed to handle. AFAIK, the only bacteria in Bio-spira is nitrosomonas (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here).
-Lana
>
> Or (from pet odor control products) maybe they're using encapsulation
> technology, "wrapping" it with a small amount of oxygen that won't be
> depleted before the expiration date?
>
> Carmen
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 10:37 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Carmen,
I'm not sure about these so-called digestive aid bacteria since I've never done any research or reading about them (I'm down here in Southern Louisiana where we put hot sauce and lots of spices on just about everything so I've never needed any added digestive bacteria.. lol) and whether they will "live" outside of their normal environment (your intestines) but I do know that nitrifying bacteria need ammonia and oxygen to live. I know some bacteria will live in a dry environment and then become active under the right conditions (aka yeast) and nitrifying bacteria are an airborne bacteria in nature but there's a big difference between airborne bacteria and packaged products. In airborne conditions, there's just the right amount of moisture, plenty of O2 and there's an ammonia source from the nitrogen cycle that exists in all of nature.
It took Marineland ten years to develop the original Bio-Spira and their patent will be expiring soon.. I'm guessing in the next couple of years since the product came out in 2002 so it's at least six years old and most patents are only good for ten years. They were never really able to get it introduced to the mass marketplace due to the cost and other inhibiting factors associated with keeping it refrigerated during shipping and at retail levels. I would imagine that over the past ten years, while Bio-Spira held the patent on the hibernation method of keeping the nitrifying bacteria "alive" throughout the shipping and distribution process, all of the other so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle companies would have been figuring out a way to keep theirs alive without the need for refrigeration and NONE of them have done so... so I'm not sure how Marineland could have finally figured out a way to do it but I guess anything is possible so I'll wait and see some published reports from hobbyists and/or peer reviewed studies to come out. Here's a long interview with Dr. Timothy Hovenac, the lead scientist that helped develop Bio-Spira... http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=36
The fact that they are releasing the "new" Bio-Spira under Tetra's brand name makes me think it will just be another bottle of JUNK that they try to sell unsuspecting newbies. Of course, Bio-Spira did learn it was not just the nitrosomonas bacteria but the nitrospira and nitrosospira bacteria that started the nitrogen cycle so maybe, just maybe, if they do have some of these proper bacteria in a bottle, it might work but I'm very, very skeptical at this point. Why would they not use their own name? They already have really good brand recognition, with many hobbyists, as the only product that works as advertised so I'm not sure why they'd give that up... haven't they ever heard of "New Coke"? I'd like to see what Dr. Timothy Hovenac has to say about the new formula of Bio-Spira.
I know the other so-called bacteria-in-a-bottles do not work. For example, with the original Bio-Spira, you could add it one day and then start adding ammonia at up to 5ppm the next day and the tank would "cycle" properly (ammonia>nitrite>nitrate). I've read many posts from hobbyists who tried this experiment with the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products and NOTHING happened to the added ammonia the next day because there simply were NO live bacteria in the bottles. Eventually the tank would cycle but that would happen due to the airborne nitrifying bacteria eventually inhabiting the tank and growing large colonies. Most of the other bacteria-in-a-bottles did not even have the proper nitrifying bacteria.
Hey... now that's something we could do. Bottle air and sell it! Just kidding of course since the bottled air would eventually run out of O2 and ammonia as the nitrifying bacteria live and they would eventually die off. Hey, wait a minute.... we could sell bottles of air that aren't sealed so the nitrifying bacteria have a constant supply of fresh air and suspended ammonia so they would live. Or we could sell bottled air that has to be kept refrigerated to put the nitrifying bacteria into hibernation.
Oh well.. I don't have the patent yet so I'm making this special licensing offer to anyone else. You are welcome to use my idea of selling "GoldLenny's 100% Natural Air" complete with suspended nitrifying bacteria, oxygen and ammonia for use in jump starting the nitrogen cycle in aquariums. I do want a 5% royalty though! ;-)
I guess this belongs more on my Rants & Raves blog. LOL
On a side note, since I don't have 5-10 empty 10G tanks sitting around, maybe someone out here can go out and buy a bottle of each of the current so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products and try this simple experiment. Set up the tanks running with a filter, add the product, wait the prescribed time period and then add 5ppm of ammonia and test it the next day to see if any of the ammonia was converted through the nitrogen cycle.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carmen H
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:35 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Been thinking on this one. I'm a dog person, not a chemist, but here's something I thought of...
Most high-end holistic dog foods contain probiotics (bacteria). They are applied after the food cools to avoid being damaged by heat.
Eagle Pack also sells them in a dried powder form to assist with either food transition and fix for upset tummies. The bacteria are in "suspended animation" due to being dried. Maybe they've figured out a way to suspend it similarly so that it is dormant and doesn't require oxygen. A liquid is obviously different but ??? Come to think of it, Septibac for septic systems is available in powder OR liquid...I've never done a pile of research on the efficacy of it but I spray it on my yard in the spring to help digest leftover winter waste after the major spring cleanup and it seems to work...
Or (from pet odor control products) maybe they're using encapsulation technology, "wrapping" it with a small amount of oxygen that won't be depleted before the expiration date?
Carmen
On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
> Bruce,
>
> There simply is not a way to have a room temp bottle of live
> nitrifying bacteria that would have a shelf life of more than a few
> days. The science simply doesn't support it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 11:02 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Bruce,
There simply is not a way to have a room temp bottle of live nitrifying bacteria that would have a shelf life of more than a few days. The science simply doesn't support it.
The bacteria need high O2 levels and feed off of ammonia... but if the ammonia level is above 5ppm, it starts to have a negative effect on the bacteria's colony growth and lifespan. Further, the bacteria colony is capable of doubling its size every 24-48 hours so even if they only put one or two nitrifying bacteria in a 16 oz. bottle of 5ppm ammonia solution, based on geometric progression, the colony would rapidly grow and consume all of the ammonia in a very short period of time.
Show me a product that has live bacteria living in the bottle after a couple of months in production, distribution and sitting on a shelf and I'll take back my words but frankly, I don't think such a product exists. I've tried several of the other so-called bottled bacteria products over the years and NONE of them worked as advertised... except Bio-Spira.
This is what was so GREAT about the original Bio-Spira and that it was kept refrigerated to keep the bacteria in hibernation so they did not consume all of the ammonia in the package until it was time to add the package to the aquarium. There were peer reviewed scientific reports proving that Bio-Spira actually had live nitrifying bacteria.
I've never seen any peer reviewed reports on any of the other so-called bacteria-in-a-bottle products. Once again, I'll take back my words if you can show me such reports on the products you claim work.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bruce cohen
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:05 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Not all all bacteria in a bottle are pure JUNK The tropical science company have an excellent line of bacterias in a bottle both for saltwater and fresh including freshwater spawning aid as well as pro botics that protect fish. they even have a gravel product that does what it says cleans the gravel without increasing nitrates. it apears that marineland may have figured out a way to put the bacteria in a statis but I do know that Jungle Labs are probally not going to be happy when they have to re name there product since theirs were on the market first then they should have the rights to calling there product start right.
"Lenny V. aka GoldLenny"
More late breaking news about Bio-Spira...
I wonder if it's going to work as well as the original product or if it's just going to another bacteria-in-a-bottle that doesn't work. It could be why they are releasing it under Tetra's label since Tetra will pretty much sell anything in a bottle... look at their Easy Balance with Nitraban product which is pure JUNK!!!
Here is the reply I got from Marineland...
Hello,
We are relaunching bio-spira. It is in a new package and reformulated.
It will no longer need to be refrigerated, and hopefully, soon on every store shelf across the nation. The freshwater version will be branded Tetra and called start right, while the saltwater version will be branded Instant Ocean and still be called Bio-Spira.
They held off on adding it to the webpage because of this change.
Regards,
Robert Huber
United Pet Group, Aquatics Div.
Senior Consumer Relations Specialist
Robert.Huber@Tetra.net <
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com <mailto:goldlenny%40gmail.com> ]
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:29 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:%27AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> '
Subject: Bio-Spira - was RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Mike,
I was shocked when I saw your post so I did some Googling and it looks like the rumor may be partially correct. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ <http://www.drsfostersmith.com/> was carrying Bio-Spira up until recently but now it's no longer on their website either. When I looked at http://www.marineland.com/, <http://www.marineland.com,/> there's no mention of Bio-Spira either. WTF!!
Then I called Marineland's 800 number and found out some interesting stuff.
For the past couple of years, Marineland has been working on a way to bottle Bio-Spira so it did not have to be refrigerated, since the refrigeration aspect was a big problem getting Bio-Spira into ALL pet stores and/or selling it easily online.
According to the person I spoke to, there is still some of the "old" product available at some retailers and online sources but he could not give me any of the online sources because his computer was acting up. The new Marineland website still has the store locator function and he suggested looking for a retailer in the area and contacting them to see if any have or might have access to some of the remaining inventory of the old Bio-Spira.
It will be interesting to see how they package it and their explanation as to why it doesn't have to be refrigerated since the big explanation for why Bio-Spira worked all along and why all of the other bacteria-in-a-bottle products didn't work was because it was refrigerated and the bacteria were kept in hibernation. The room temperature stuff could not keep the bacteria alive if there ever was live bacteria in the room temp bottles in the first place.
He also said that they just revamped their website and did not put Bio-Spira on it yet since the new product isn't available yet and they have shipped their final inventory of the old product. I told him they should put a press release or something on a link to Bio-Spira on their website so people will know, otherwise the internet rumor mill will have all kinds of misinformation out there in a matter of minutes.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/ <http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/> -----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Deenerz@aol.com <mailto:Deenerz%40aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:35 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Sissy,
I heard a new batch has not been made in about two years and none is scheduled to be made at this time. I heard a rumor that Dr. Fosters and Smith might have an alternative but have not had a chance to check myself.
-Mike
If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if
-----Original Message-----
From: Sissy Sathre
>
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:31 am
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Hi Lisa, a 50 gallon is a perfect size aquarium for a beginner. Much larger margin for mistakes than smaller tanks. I suggest going to :
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm <http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwsetupindex.htm>
You will find "Good" information there from very experienced aquariest.
You'll find different ways of filtering your new aquarium from under ground filters, invented in the 1950's to supply oxygen to your bacteria bed-creating a biological balance, to the newest methods of we/dry filters, bio-wheels,other hang on filters, canister filters and denitrification filters.
If you can find Marineland's Bio-spiral, it will set up a bacteria bed instantly. It's a bacteria suspentded in a medium that seeds the nitrifying bacteria strains into your system, that normally takes at least 21 days to establish with starter fish. It is hard to find,and sometimes if you call Marineland and tell them you cant find it in your area, they will send it to you Free overnight shipping and all. It has a short shelf life and has to be keep cool,so many stores dont carry it. I am the Marineland service rep. in west-Tx. They have sent it to me to give out before for free ! Marineland is the manufacture of commercial lobster tanks, and MARS systems, the wall unites you see in Wal-marts and they manufacture aquariums and aquarium supplies including the Bio-wheel filters.
You can of coarse cycle the fishless way,and speed the process of the nitrogen cycle.
The best way in my opinion is to get a hand full of gravel from a healthy existing aquarium, or exchange bio-wheels from a existing filter. I do both and start my clients tanks out with hardy fish in 24 hours. I only add a few fish to feed the bacteria bed, then make sure no mini cycle is taking place, and then add a few more every couple weeks until is at capacity for the size the fish will grow.
I hope this helps!
Sissy Sathre
DBA Aquariums By Sissy
http://www.aquariumsbysissy.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:48 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Hi Lisa,
A good free place to start is to look at profiles for your proposed fish on http://fish.mongabay.com/ Each profile will have a paragraph called SC (Suggested Companions) which will give you a baseline of usually compatible fish to start off with. Remember though... the fish do not always read the same things we do so there will sometimes be problems. The Mongabay profiles also give you recommended tank size, feeding tips, water parameters, etc.
Another good place to start is my "A to Z of Fish Keeping" page on my blog http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/. That one page will cover most aspects of beginner fish keeping and there are links to two different free online tutorials that you can take at your leisure which will walk you through all of the basics. Pay special attention to fishless cycling your new tank and learn the basics of "the nitrogen cycle", called "Cycling" in the fish keeping world. It's the biggest mistake most newbies make by not fishless cycling their tank or trying to cycle with fish and not understanding the arduous process that the fish are going through.
Since you have the tank, you could set it up and get the fishless cycling process going while you take the tutorials and read up more on the types of fish you might want. Make a list of what you like and look around at your locals stores to see what they have. It will take a couple of weeks to fishless cycle the tank and you will probably change your planned stocking several times during this time period.
Don't fall for all the so-called-chemical fixes that the stores try to sell you. Get a decent master test kit now and do a baseline test on your tap water so you will know what you are starting with. I have a blog on doing the baseline testing. Post your before/after numbers here and we'll help you decipher them.
Let us know which books you have. There are about 1,000 bad books for every good book out there... especially when it comes to setting up a new tank since much of what we've learned about the nitrogen cycle in fish keeping has happened in the past 10 or so years. I've got some books published by well known publishers that are plain JUNK. If you want to buy a magazine, get TFH - Tropical Fishkeeping Hobbyist rather than Aquarium Fish Magazine since AFM has some real junk information coming out of it where TFH is usually very reliable. I'm about to do a new blog comparing the two magazines just to show the disparity of information that is out there by popular publications.
Your 50G tank will not be large enough for long term keeping of the Bala Shark since they grow to 16". Here is the profile on the Bala Shark and I've copy/pasted the SC section ... http://fish.mongabay.com/species/Balantiocheilus_melanopterus.html
Here is the profile on Angelfish... scroll down about halfway to the more common angelfish... http://fish.mongabay.com/angelfish.htm A 50G tank, depending on the dimensions, would be a good home for 1-3 angelfish and depending on how many angelfish you go with, you could have other fish also. Angelfish get pretty BIG (6" long x 9" high) and even though they are peaceful cichlids, they are cichlids and are not always angels so they need their space. ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lisa
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:37 PM
Subject: [AquaticLife] New 50gal freshwater set up
Hi all.
I'm looking at maybe starting a new freshwater tank, and need all the help I can get.
It will probably be a 50 gal or smaller.
I really am a novice at this. So I have no idea where to begin.
I like bala sharks. And would like to know what other species I would be able to keep with them.
Either that or some angels.
So where do I start?
I have some books on freshwater set ups which cover plants and various species of fish. But they don't have a great deal of information. I figured it would be great to talk to people with experience.
First of all. How, when and how much do I need to do a water change?
How do I get the right water conditions?
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