Here's what Brita says...
http://www.brita.com/us/support/about-impurities/
BritaR water tastes better because BritaR filtration systems reduce chlorine (taste and odor)1. Because BritaR filters remove only small amounts of fluoride over the life of the filter, you don't have to worry about missing out on the benefits of fluoride in your tap water.2
How the BritaR Faucet Filter works
An added layer around the filter traps large particulate matter from the water. Activated powdered carbon acts like a sponge, sucking up Chlorine (taste and odor and Benzene). A zeolite acts like a magnet attracting Lead
Then from the FAQ page...
http://www.brita.com/us/support/faq/faucet-faq/
The BritaR Faucet Filter removes microbiological cryptosporidium and giardia. It also reduces lead, TTHM, VOCs, lindane (pesticide), 2,4-D, alachlor, atrazine (herbicide), chlorine (taste and odor) and sediment1. For more information about the impurities that BritaR Faucet Filters reduce, including any health risks they may help avoid confusion.
NOTICE that it specifically mentions "Chlorine" but doesn't mention Chloramine... and then it says it only "reduces chlorine", not remove it completely.... things that make you go hmmmmm????
To be "Fair and Balanced", here's what I found on the Pur website...
http://www.purwater.com/#/contaminants
http://www.purwater.com/manuals/PUR_Filter_Comparison.pdf
Well.. unfortunately, you'll have to read the Pur website yourself since the Pur website relies on Flash Player and PDF file to display what their filters do but they also do NOT mention anything about removing or reducing chloramine... only REDUCING chlorine.
Unless someone else can find something definitive and in writing from either of these companies, I would strongly suggest that you NOT rely on these faucet filters for removing chlorine or chloramine from your tap water to be used in your fish tanks. You should still use a dechlor product when using these types of filter systems. They might be OK in removing some other nasties that our fish may not like but they do not make the water completely fish ready.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
(Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right
side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month)
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 3:35 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
Lots of stuff to catch up on. I'll post a complete update later
tonight.
- Concerns about chloramines started, I believe, because my Baseline tests
were zero for Ammonia at first and then went up the next day. I'll verify
that before my post tonight.
- Red streaks still pretty much the same - will try for a picture.
- All fish eating and CB much more active, but does still rest more than
the others.
- Bought the dechlor because I wanted to stop using the Brita tap filter.
It didn't cost much, so no big deal if I need to stick with the Prime. For
some reason I thought maybe the chloramines were coming from the filter, but I'll do another Baseline test on just the straight tap water before I do
anything. I'm sticking with the Brita for continuity until the fish don't
need any more meds. I'll check with the water company on Monday.
- Did a big PWC today pre-PraziPro, because it seems to need at least 3
days between treatments. Can I just treat replacement water if I need to do
a PWC before then?
More later.
DebR and the Three Goldfish
(CB, Lucille, and Raven)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@wmconnect.com
<mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> >
To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:48 PM
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
With the amounts of water you are changing daily, I'm now beginning
to get suspicious of the ammonia and nitrite test results remaining
at their previous levels. If this continues, I'd have to suggest
your looking further at these tests, their reagents or the manner in
which they're being read. If these are found to be A-OK, then I
would suspect that (1) much of you present ammonia is from your water
supply coming to you as chloramine, and/or (2) your filter is far
from being cycled, or by now the ammonia-converting bacteria should
be sufficient to take care of any influx of new ammonia/ammonium,
even though the nitrite-converting bacteria may not yet be expect to
keep up. We'll work on it though.
Noticing Lucille's Septicemia is unchanged. While its not especially
expected that all fish involved, affected by the same parameters
which may have brought this on, should necessarily develop
Septicemia, after time exposed to these same parameters (if they do
still exist) it could be looked forward to seeing some development of
this in the other fish. If its possible, can you get a pic of
Lucille, showing these streaks?
Are all fish still eating? If it does become necessary to treat for
Septicemia, it should be welcomed to note that it is deemed safe to
use Maracyn II (an antibiotic of choice for Septicemia) in conjuction
with PraziPro. Too, PraziPro is seen to be a rather mild medication,
which also should be a welcomed bit of info.
As Lenny mentioned, there's no need to get a dechlor in addition to
Prime, as Prime will do the same thing. Your apparent (by you) need
for a dechlor might suggest to me that you feel you have chlorine in
your tap water which you want to detoxify. Are you quite sure you do
not have chloramine in your tap water, and if you know you do (but
then, why would you want a dechlor?), you should be aware that your
Brita filter on your water supply may not remove chloramine -- or may
be only limited in its effectiveness against chloramine. If you have
chloramine, which I just assumed all along as more and more water
companies are converting to this, not only should you have been using
at least your Amquel+ all along (preferably, Prime), but you should
not consider using a dechlor (which removes chlorine only) in an
effort to save money, as was suggested unless you're sure you only
have chlorine. Otherwise, you should use Prime now, and continue to
use it if your ammonia results indicate your having this waste
product and regardless of your Brita filter, if you know this is in
your water supply. A quick call to your supplier should tell you.
Ray
--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Menagerie_Manager"
Tuesday Night Check in (Day 22 of Salt - Day 6 of reduced)
Tank readings @ 10:30AM: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly
under .25ppm;
Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: 5 -10ppm
5G PWC @ 1PM
6G PWC @ 11:30PM
maintaining salt at 1tsp/G
Added 1tsp of Amquel+ to tank (1/2 dose, because I don't have an
airstone)
Lucille's Septicemia unchanged
I'll be going to the pet store tomorrow and will get the Prime and also some Dechlor so I don't have to use my Brita filter. I keep telling myself to get it and I keep forgetting.
DebR and the Three Goldfish
(CB, Lucille, and Raven)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@...>
To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Again, good to see their size difference is now noticeable. You can grow fish from small and their day to day growth is hardly obvious. Then, all of a sudden you might take note of the difference, when seeing them from a different perspective (and that might not only be from a different viewing angle). Prime would be the better choice to use, and you wouldn't have to worry about any partial oxygen depletion affecting the fish as a result of it.
With your recent PWC's, you tank should be fairly free of leftover medications; this should help in giving the fish some needed stimulation (like a breath of fresh water) before medicating with the PraziPro. No doubt now, as the fish are filling out their 20 gallon tank, that you can see why a much larger tank will be needed. Always nice to see fish thriving, which their growth often indicates. Any improvement in the red streaking of the fins? Am hoping that eliminating the free-ammonia (NH3) by converting it to NH4+ will address that issue, as it was that which brought it on, but if it
becomes necessary Maracyn II (Minocycline) can be used to clear up
bacteria hemorrhagic septicemia, although we'd rather not go that route right now unless absolutely necessary. As per usual, keep us posted. Ray
--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
, "Menagerie_Manager"
menagerie_manager@> wrote:
Well, if I'm going to want an airstone to feel safe using the Amquel+, I might as well price the Prime while I'm there. No connection between the
Amquel+ and the fish growing. That was a side note. I've been so focused
on the health problems that I hadn't noticed the growth until a couple of
days ago, when Lucille cruised past CB and I thought, "Wow! She has got to be three times her size!" That's mass-wise, not length-wise. I think she's
about half an inch or so longer than CB, but all three were about the same
size when they arrived. But then I stood back and looked at all three and
realized that even CB has grown some in the last month. They were in a 10G tank for the last year, so now they're filling out their 20G tank.
DebR and the Three Goldfish
(CB, Lucille, and Raven)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@>
To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:51 AM
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR RAY
Lowering the water level will help increase the aeration as the outflow from your filter will have a further distance to fall, and while helpful, may not necessarily create near as much surface circulation as would an airstone.
I do not understand what you're saying. What does using Amquel+ or its often needed increase in aeration have anything to do with your fish growing? I don't see any connection here except that if you don't use Amquel+ to convert your ammonia (and increase the aeration as needed) you fish may not live long enough to continue to grow.
I also don't understand the sudden awareness that your fish are growing now; since when have you suddenly become aware that they're growing? Since you first started posting their problems, or since you lowered their water level, or since you started your PWC regimen or since you started removing the salt (???); I don't understand how you mean this. Unless stunted, under normal conditions and with proper maintenance, fish continue to slowly grow constantly -- even if imperceptibly.
My first choice would have been SeaChem's Prime for use as a Chloramine neutralizer, but with your already having Amquel+ I couldn't in good conscious send you out to specifically just get Prime. Prime has never been seen to cause a problem (as far as I've ever become aware of) in the way of deceased fish as a result of using it, regardless of any manner of aeration.
On the other hand, while the original formula Amquel (note -- no +) which has been discontinued never created a problem, this newer formula of Amquel+ has been reported to lead to many fish deaths when even slightly overdosed -- and there's no way of knowing exactly how much is needed when the water company may increase or decrease their usual level of chloramine at any time. After learning how this new formula works, it has been recommended to increase the aeration when using Amquel+ as a precaution, even though it may not normally be needed. There have been far fewer fish death reports as a result of this; and I would not rely solely on the relatively smaller benefit of lowering the water level for this increase in aeration. Ray
In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager"
menagerie_manager@> wrote:
I totally understand. I think it was after I first mentioned having used the Amquel+ a couple of times that Lenny suggested I lower the water
levels to get better aeration. I'll use it, but only as a last resort, since the goldfish are growing, now.
DebR and the Three Goldfish
(CB, Lucille, and Raven)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@>
To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:10 AM
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR
RAY
Yes, Amquel+ is quite safe to use with PraziPro. Its strictly a
chloramine neutralizer which breaks the chlorine -- ammonia bond
and converts the ammonia to ammonium. Increased amounts are best
used with the benefit of added aeration which aids in the safety of process of this conversion, whether or not its used in concert with anything else. I mention this as, with just the use of Amquel+ alone in normal usage for chloramine neutralizing, there have been reports at times of fish dying from the use of this product, when the oxygen balance hasn't been maintained during its use. The ammonia -- ammonium converting process uses oxygen. Unless the chloramine added to your water is excessive and you need to use more Amquel+ than one normally might, it should be totally safe, but I mention using an airstone only to play it safe to cover any possibility and to ensure adequate O2 levels (I like safeguards -- even if not needed).
Ray
--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager"
menagerie_manager@> wrote:
That link I sent for you to see my salt levels is just a link to the AquaticLife Files Page's "Water Chemistry" folder. None of the other files on that page are mine. I don't know enough about fish to be writing info sheets. lol!
I do have Amquel+ on hand. I'll use it if 2 PWCs a day doesn't do the
job. Is it safe to use along with the PraziPro? (which should have arrived
by today, but I guess Christmas has the mail slowed down)
OMG! I cannot believe how HUGE Lucille is getting! She's almost twice
as long as CB, now, and absolutely gorgeous. Gotta get that big tank as
soon as possible.
DebR and the Three Goldfish
(CB, Lucille, and Raven)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@>
To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 12:13 AM
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q FOR
RAY
Good to see that the white spot on Raven has cleared up; one less thing to have to worry about. Goldfish should have no osmotic problems at 1 tsp/G salt, and there's no need to add any more if the septicemia gets worse. One tsp/G is not much more than the token recommended level of 0.6 tsp/G when we say to use 1 Tbs/5 Gallons when treating Ich -- for even the most salt-intolerant fish, like Cory's and Tetra's. With nitrogenous waste still present in your water column, I would not reduce your salt level much lower.
When opening the link for your files to check out your Excel Sheet for salt levels, I noticed one of your other files with a heading, "Should I Change The Water During The Initial Nitrogen Cycle," to which the opening statement was, "Not if you can avoid it." This of course is quite true, as the more water you change (and the less ammonia and nitrite are available for the nitrifying bacteria), the longer it will take to cycle the tank. But there comes a time, if these consistent levels affect the health of your fish, that changing out water can no longer be avoided. This is primarily why we advocate fish-less cycling -- it can otherwise rough on your fish.
There is a helpful point I left out from my lost post only as I had forgotten to include it again (and just another reason why I hate losing a post), which should be useful to you. To at least address the toxic issues of your ammonia poisoning, this waste product being the more toxic of the two (ammonia and nitrite), by using Prime (SeaChem) or Amquel +, this ammonia will convert to harmless ammonium which will still be used by your nitrifying bacteria. This should help if you feel you need to reduce the salt level somewhat to avoid osmotic problems, as well as not going too ballistic in changing out water -- while increased PWC's are encouraged to further reduce your nitrite, this is not quite as toxic as ammonia -- besides,
your cycle should be near complete.
In looking over your salt reduction chart, it's now more understandable when you say you added salt while at the same time reducing the total salt level. Had you not added back the 1 tsp/G of salt while doing the PWC at the 2.29 tsp/G level, it would have dropped to 1.91 - 1.92 tsp/G instead of 2.08 tsp/G. I know you've since done more PWC's, but I can see by this exactly where the salt went each time. Ray
> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager"
> > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, I'll be maintaining salt at 1tsp/G unless CB has
> > trouble
> > > > with
> > > > > osmotic problems or Lucille's septicemia gets worse. I
guess
> if
> > > > they both
> > > > > get worse I'll have to separate one out.
> > > > >
> > > > > The white spot on Raven has gone away, so I'll wait on
> the
> > > > Acriflavin.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rather than try and explain verbally where I am with
the
> > salt
> > > > level and
> > > > > how I got there, I've updated my Excel sheet:
> > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%>
> > > > 20Chemistry/
> > > > > scroll down to "DebRs Salt levels.xls".
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll start doing 5G PWCs twice a day and see if that
gets
> > the
> > > > ammonia
> > > > > and nitrate down.
> > > > >
> > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > > (I really do want my mommy, now)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------message inserted for continuity-------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Monday Afternoon Check in (Day 21 of Salt - Day 6 of
reducing
> > it)
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh snap! I just came to check my email *after* doing
the
> > > > PWC. The
> > > > > salt is now down to 1tsp/G. I really think I needed to
lower
> it
> > > > yesterday
> > > > > just to keep CB alive. She's eating, now, and no longer
> sitting
> > > on
> > > > the
> > > > > bottom of the tank looking like death warmed over. Lucille
is
> > the
> > > > stronger
> > > > > and larger of the three fish, so, unless the septicemia get
> > worse,
> > > > I'll
> > > > > leave it at 1tsp/G and just try to get the ammonia and
nitrite
> > > > lower. Will
> > > > > the zeolite help with this level of salt in the tank?
> > > > >
> > > > > - Tank readings @ noon: pH:7.6 (anything I can do to lower
> > > this?);
> > > > > Ammonia: slightly under .25; Nitrite: .25 (if my baseline
> > hadn't
> > > > been zero,
> > > > > I'd think the test wasn't working right); Nitrate: 10
> > > > > - 3G PWC @ 1pm
> > > > >
> > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------End of message inserted for continuity---------
--
> --
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Raymond Wetzel" <sevenspringss@>
> > > > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:15 PM
> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem? Q
FOR
> > RAY
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Deb, As mentioned in my previous post, I intended on
> > doing
> > > a
> > > > > follow-up, but wanted to get that info to you ASAP. I did
> want
> > to
> > > > > address this post of yours from late (11:20PM) Saturday
night,
> > > which
> > > > > I saw yesterday/Sunday morning. I have not replied to any
of
> > your
> > > > > more recent messages between when I posted to you last,
around
> > > noon
> > > > > on Friday, and this message of yours directed at me as you
> were
> > > > > directing your messages elsewhere and being assisted
> accordingly
> > > (I
> > > > > don't like to meddle). When I did see your message, I wrote
> > you a
> > > > > long detailed reply to all matters of it, and I was about 2
> > > seconds
> > > > > away from sending it when my power went out -- the storm
here
> > was
> > > > > pretty intense. Always my luck though when attempting to
send
> > > > > something I spent a lot of time on, but this time I can't
> blame
> > my
> > > > > lousy 'putor (which any other time is the usual cause).
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt I'll remember all I wanted to advise you of, as
that's
> > > > > normally what happens in these instances (nothing new to
me!),
> > but
> > > > > I'll try. For starters, I wanted to mention that it never
> hurts
> > > to
> > > > > feed pea meat, as you've been doing, in hopes that might
> correct
> > > any
> > > > > constipation issues (and hopefully might be the root cause
of
> > the
> > > > > problem), even though that's doesn't appear to be the
problem
> > > here.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's encouraging to note that CB is acting a bit better,
which
> > > > > indicates he still has reserve strength (always a good
sign).
> > On
> > > > the
> > > > > salt issue, I noticed on 12/18 (Thursday) that the salt
> content
> > > was
> > > > > at 2.75 tsp per Gallon, and after you did the PWC around
Noon
> > that
> > > > > day, it was at 2.29 tsp/G. At that time you stated you
> intended
> > > on
> > > > > holding the salt at around 2 tsp/G. I hadn't seen anything
on
> > any
> > > > > PWC you may have done on 12/19 (nothing posted on any PWC's
> that
> > > > > day).
> > > > >
> > > > > Your next post seems somewhat conflicting and a bit
confusing
> > when
> > > > > your mention of a PWC on Saturday 12/20 stated that you
> > REPLACED 1
> > > > > tsp of salt per Gallon, yet the salt level DECREASED to 2.08
> > > > > Tsp/Gallon. Looks like you were adding salt, but then the
> > > > > measurement comes out to be less -- I have to assume you
> decided
> > > not
> > > > > to add any salt. You did state you intended to hold the
salt
> a
> > 2
> > > > > tsp/G., which I was about to suggest, but I see you made
> another
> > > PWC
> > > > > since then, dropping the salt content to 1.73 tsp/G at 11:00
> PM
> > > > > Saturday night. I would have told you not to reduce it any
> less
> > > > than
> > > > > that (maybe even get it back up to 2 tsp/G), but I had no
> power
> > > > > here. I see since then, you did another PWC yesterday,
> reducing
> > > the
> > > > > salt even further, to 1.2 tsp/G; I hope you have not taken
out
> > any
> > > > > more salt than this.
> > > > >
> > > > > For any slight fungus issues that might remain, you can use
> the
> > > > > Acriflavin (API's Fungus Cure) I recommended, which is
> extremely
> > > > mild
> > > > > and will not add any stress of being "over-medicated." I
hope
> > all
> > > > > fungal issues are cleared up at this time though. On the
post
> > of
> > > > > mine on salt (message # 34503 -- 12/17/08 1:20PM) which you
> were
> > > > > unsure of, you might want to refer back to that, especially
as
> > it
> > > > > contained other info. I did say that -- if you still see
some
> > > > > fungus, you could give them another treatment of Fungus
Clear
> if
> > > it
> > > > > looked threatening, while you waited for the PraziPro (which
> > might
> > > > > get to you today or tomorrow). At this same time though, I
> said
> > > the
> > > > > salt can be reduced. Adding to this, the fish would enjoy a
> day
> > > of
> > > > > clean water (the salt can remain at its present level, but
the
> > > > > previous meds should be eliminated) before treating with the
> > > > PraziPro.
> > > > >
> > > > > The last thing I wanted to mention was that there is no
other
> > > > > medication you could use in place of the PraziPro -- at
least
> > > > nothing
> > > > > near as good that would help with their type of internal
> > parasite
> > > > > issue. Even if there were (which there isn't), it wouldn't
> pay
> > to
> > > > > start messing with all kinds of other meds and then still
use
> > > > > PraziPro on top of it all. that's about all for now. You
> will
> > > have
> > > > > to now definitely do larger PWC's to reduce your ammonia and
> > > nitrite
> > > > > (while keeping up your salt content), as you can't have
these
> > > levels
> > > > > remaining the same, at around 0.25 ppm. The longer these
> > > > nitrogenous
> > > > > wastes stay at this level, the more toxic they will become
to
> > your
> > > > > fish -- which is why they're starting to get septicemia
> (right,
> > > you
> > > > > can't use an ammonia absorbing zeolite if you have salt in
the
> > > > > tank). Do several PWC's per day if necessary to get these
> > levels
> > > > > down. Ray
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Menagerie_Manager"
> > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, I don't have a specific LFS, other than
> > PetSmart
> > > > and
> > > > > I don't ask them for any advice on anything except for where
> to
> > > find
> > > > > stuff in the store. There was a good one not too far away,
> but
> > it
> > > > > went under last summer sometime. I know of another one
> nearby,
> > > but
> > > > > it's a dirty little place and I doubt they have a website.
I
> > was
> > > > > just wondering if there was anything that most fish stores
> carry
> > > > that
> > > > > would help, as the PraziPro didn't arrive today.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've given the pea meat at least three times in the
last
> > two
> > > > > weeks. I was just thinking about trying it again. CB
> actually
> > > came
> > > > > to the top for flakes tonight, instead of just sitting there
> and
> > > > > maybe picking at whatever happened to fall nearby.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as the salt, I can't find the post, but I
> thought
> > > that
> > > > > Ray had said it was ok to give other treatments along with
> salt.
> > > I
> > > > > just had to make sure the malachite green was gone before
> giving
> > > the
> > > > > Fungus Clear and that the Fungus Clear is gone before I do
the
> > > > > PraziPro. I was only lowering the salt to counter the
osmotic
> > > > stress
> > > > > that I was seeing. I don't want the fungus to get a
foothold
> > > again
> > > > > before I can get rid of the parasites. SHOULD I CONTINUE TO
> > LOWER
> > > > > THE SALT, RAY??? I haven't done my PWC, yet, for today.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:08 PM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus
> problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What's available at your LFS? It's hard to suggest
> anything
> > > > else
> > > > > without
> > > > > > knowing what's available. Do they have a website?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Have you tried feeding the green pea "meat"? Besides
the
> > > > > potential for
> > > > > > internal parasites, there's also the chance of
> > constipation...
> > > > > and it's also
> > > > > > a good thing to feed fancy goldfish green pea "meat"
once
> a
> > > week
> > > > > or so just
> > > > > > to keep them "regular" since they are prone to digestive
> > > system
> > > > > disorders..
> > > > > > which often leads to swim bladder disorders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Going from memory, you started off with Malachite Green
> for
> > a
> > > > few
> > > > > days which
> > > > > > wasn't working. Then the salt and didn't you also do
the
> > > > Maracyn
> > > > > 2? And
> > > > > > then the Jungle Fungus Clear... right? Why did you add
> salt
> > > to
> > > > > this last
> > > > > > PWC? I thought we were phasing the salt out with each
> PWC?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Before starting the PraziPro, you need to get rid of the
> > rest
> > > of
> > > > > the meds.
> > > > > > I'm concerned the fish are going to get overly stressed
> with
> > > too
> > > > > much meds.
> > > > > > When I've had sick fish to treat, I usually give them a
> day
> > of
> > > > > just fresh
> > > > > > water between treatments to give their kidneys a chance
to
> > > rest
> > > > > between
> > > > > > treatments... kind of like, there's nothing like good
> clean
> > > > fresh
> > > > > air for
> > > > > > us.. same goes for the fish with good clean fresh water.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can run fresh carbon in your filter to filter out
any
> > meds
> > > > > that are
> > > > > > missed by PWC's but carbon will not filter out salt so
> only
> > > the
> > > > > PWC's will
> > > > > > slowly reduce the salt.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder
> > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com
<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>
> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are
> listed
> > on
> > > > > the right
> > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under
Archives
> by
> > > > > Year, Month)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:31 PM
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus
> problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Saturday Afternoon Check in (Day 19 of Salt)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - 3G PWC last night @ 11PM (replaced 1T salt - level is
> now
> > > > > 2.08tsp/G)
> > > > > > - Tank Readings @ noon today: pH: 7.6; Ammonia:
> > under .25ppm;
> > > > > Nitrite:
> > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: 10 to 15
> > > > > > - CB has pretty much stopped eating. I'm still offering
> > Tetra
> > > > > flakes,
> > > > > > because when she does eat, that's what she goes for.
Maybe
> > the
> > > > > carbs will
> > > > > > keep her going until the PraziPro arrives and gets a
> chance
> > to
> > > > > work. If it
> > > > > > doesn't arrive today, Is there something I can get at a
> LFS
> > > that
> > > > > might help
> > > > > > until Monday?
> > > > > > - Raven is looking stronger and her appetite is very
good.
> > > > > There's a tiny
> > > > > > white area on her dorsal fin that I'll keep an eye on.
> > Adding
> > > > > anything to
> > > > > > the tank before I treat the parasites will probably
finish
> > CB
> > > > off.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 9:59 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus
> problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The goldfish spent about a year in a 10G tank before
> coming
> > > here
> > > > > to the 20G.
> > > > > > There was a 4th goldfish until sometime over the summer
> when
> > > the
> > > > > previous
> > > > > > owner's grandson poured hot candle wax into the tank.
> Since
> > > > these
> > > > > three
> > > > > > weren't affected, I think the other one probably ate
some
> of
> > > the
> > > > > wax.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lucille is definitely longer than the other two, but she
> may
> > > be
> > > > a
> > > > > bit
> > > > > > swollen, too. Whether that's from the salt or the
> parasites,
> > > > > remains to be
> > > > > > seen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Last night (ok, 2:00 this morning), I did one final
check
> on
> > > the
> > > > > fish before
> > > > > > going to bed. they were at the front of the tank,
looking
> at
> > > the
> > > > > Christmas
> > > > > > tree lights. They must be feeling a little bit better to
> > even
> > > > > care about
> > > > > > that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 3:00 AM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus
> problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as Lucille being larger. It could be from water
> > > retention
> > > > > due to
> > > > > > osmoregulatory problems... hopefully not... or if it is,
> > > > > hopefully she'll
> > > > > > start to expel the water as the meds are reduced.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It could also be that Lucille was not as affected by
> > stunting
> > > so
> > > > > it wasn't
> > > > > > permanent for her... so now that they are in a larger
tank
> > (or
> > > > > same size
> > > > > > with frequent PWC's, which simulates a larger body of
> > water),
> > > > she
> > > > > is growing
> > > > > > and just happens to be growing faster than the other
two.
> > > > > Hopefully, they
> > > > > > all recover from the earlier likely stunting issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just peeked at your first message and the answers
wasn't
> > > there
> > > > > and I don't
> > > > > > recall the issue coming up since but how long were the
> three
> > > > > goldfish in the
> > > > > > previous owners care? (Trying to determine an
approximate
> > age)
> > > > > What size
> > > > > > tank were they in? Is the current 20G the same tank they
> > have
> > > > > been in from
> > > > > > the beginning?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder
> > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com
<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>
> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >
> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are
> listed
> > on
> > > > > the right
> > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under
Archives
> by
> > > > > Year, Month)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:52 PM
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus
> problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 17 of Salt - Day 2 of under
> > > 3tsp/G)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - 3G PWC @ 3pm (salt now at 2.29tsp/G)
> > > > > > - Tank readings @ 11pm: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: bet .25
> > and .50ppm;
> > > > > Nitrite:
> > > > > > .25ppm; Nitrate: about 15ppm
> > > > > > - The fish are acting a bit more energetic today, esp.
> since
> > > the
> > > > > last PWC.
> > > > > > I'm thinking of holding the salt at 2tsp/G to keep any
> > fungus
> > > at
> > > > > bay until I
> > > > > > can treat with the PraziPro.
> > > > > > - CB still breathing heavy and doing the
spitting/choking
> > > thing
> > > > > occasionally
> > > > > > - These guys/gals were more or less the same size when
> they
> > > > > arrived about 3
> > > > > > weeks ago. Lucille now looks quite large next to Raven
and
> > CB.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Menagerie_Manager
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:03 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus
> problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's good to hear about the cycling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm fairly sure the salt is at 2.75 tsp/G right now, and
> > will
> > > go
> > > > > down to
> > > > > > 2.29tsp/G with today's 3G PWC. See my Excel file, "DebRs
> > Salt
> > > > > Levels" for
> > > > > > how I'm figuring the concentration of salt in the water,
> > since
> > > > > there isn't
> > > > > > really 20G in the tank right now.
> > > > > >
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%>
> > > > > 20Chemistry/
> > > > > >
> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%>
> > > > > 20Chemistry/>
> > > > > >
> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%>
> > > > > 20Chemistry/
> > > > > >
> <http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/files/Water%>
> > > > > 20Chemistry/> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm seeing the slow gulping with CB, not all the time,
but
> > > after
> > > > > exertion
> > > > > > (eating, etc). But what I'm guessing is choking is a
> shaking
> > > of
> > > > > the head,
> > > > > > backing up and spitting action, kind of like when a fish
> is
> > > > > eating and
> > > > > > breaks the food up by spitting it out repeatedly, only
> she's
> > > not
> > > > > eating at
> > > > > > the time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:27 AM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus
> problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The climbing nitrate level is just the result of your
> > nitrogen
> > > > > cycle nearly
> > > > > > completing. Before, you were having to do PWC's to keep
> the
> > > > > ammonia/nitrite
> > > > > > levels low, apparently, you may now have nearly enough
> > > > nitrifying
> > > > > bacteria
> > > > > > growing in your filter, etc., to handle the
> ammonia/nitrite
> > so
> > > > > you should
> > > > > > soon see both of them staying at 0.0ppm and you'll do
> PWC's
> > to
> > > > > keep nitrates
> > > > > > in check and also to replace/dilute the dirty water.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK. Presuming you were pretty close to 0.3% (3 teaspoons
> per
> > > > > gallon) of
> > > > > > salt, changing out 3G (or 15% of the 20G tank) would
bring
> > it
> > > > > down to
> > > > > > 0.285%. So, each time you do a 3G PWC with clear water,
> > you'll
> > > > > bring the
> > > > > > current number down by 15%, so the next 3G will bring
the
> > > 0.285%
> > > > > down to
> > > > > > 0.242% (multiply the current number by .85 to get the
new
> > > > > number). You will
> > > > > > see a diminishing return with each PWC but after about 5
> of
> > > the
> > > > > 3G PWC's,
> > > > > > you could increase the PWC amount to 25% (5G). After
> about 5
> > > of
> > > > > those, you
> > > > > > will have negligible levels (less than 0.05%) which
would
> no
> > > > > longer be
> > > > > > providing any kind of therapeutic benefits or causing
any
> > > kinds
> > > > of
> > > > > > osmoregulatory issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The "choking thing"... does it look more like yawning?
Or
> a
> > > slow
> > > > > gulping
> > > > > > motion?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lenny Vasbinder
> > > > > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com
<http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>
> > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> >
> > > > > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com>
> > > <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com <http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com> > >
> > > > > > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are
> listed
> > on
> > > > > the right
> > > > > > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under
Archives
> by
> > > > > Year, Month)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Menagerie_Manager
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:23 AM
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus
> problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wednesday Night Check in (Day 16 of Salt)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - 3G PWC @ about noon (did not treat replacement water
> with
> > > > salt)
> > > > > > - Salt now approx 2.75 tsp/G
> > > > > > - 11pm Tank Readings: pH: I'm going to say 7.6, and
that's
> > > > > probably what
> > > > > > it's been all along; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: slightly
> > > > > over .25ppm;
> > > > > > Nitrate: 15 - 20 (kind of a surprise after yesterday's
> level
> > > and
> > > > > today's
> > > > > > PWC)
> > > > > > - Not seeing any fungus right now. Only extreme
exhaustion
> > and
> > > > > that choking
> > > > > > thing that CB does. I saw Lucille do it once this
> afternoon.
> > > > > > - The PraziPro should arrive any day.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Raymond Wetzel
> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:20 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie with a fungus problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With your removal of the Fungus Clear, and your lowering
> the
> > > > salt
> > > > > > level, I trust most or all of the fungus has been
> > eliminated.
> > > > > When
> > > > > > are you expecting the PraziPro? If not for a while, and
> > > > > especially
> > > > > > if you still see some fungus, I'd give them another
> > treatment
> > > of
> > > > > > Fungus Clear if it looks threatening, but the salt can
be
> > > > > reduced.
> > > > > > The fungus should be gone right now though; if there's
> just
> > a
> > > > bit
> > > > > > remaining, you can add some acriflavin to the water (in
> the
> > > form
> > > > > of
> > > > > > API's liquid Fungus Cure) which is very mild.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the fungus is gone, just wait for the PraziPro to
start
> > > > > treating
> > > > > > them for the internal issues. CB may be having trouble
> > > adjusting
> > > > > > from flakes to pellets, if this food is new but often,
> fish
> > > will
> > > > > > reject any kind of food as their internal infections
> worsen
> > > and
> > > > > will
> > > > > > act in the manner you're describing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I see your nitrite is up, unless that figure is a result
> of
> > > your
> > > > > not
> > > > > > being able to determine the color chart match. I also
> > noticed
> > > > > your
> > > > > > two pH readings -- the results received from both test
> kits
> > > > (high
> > > > > > range pH and low range pH). In any case, it looks like
> more
> > > > > frequent
> > > > > > PWC's are in order; I would not do larger ones as you
> don't
> > > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > reduce the salt too fast at any one time. Ray
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > > > > > "Menagerie_Manager"
> > > > > > <menagerie_manager@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tuesday Night Check in (Day 15 of Salt) (Removing
> > remainder
> > > of
> > > > > > Fungus Clear with carbon filter)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Ph: 7.5 or almost 7.8 (see my post on lighting and
> test
> > > > > > results); Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate:
10 -
> > > 15ppm
> > > > > > (depending on lighting)
> > > > > > > - Lucille is sitting most of the time at the bottom.
CB
> > and
> > > > > > Raven, also, although they're a bit more active than
they
> > have
> > > > > been.
> > > > > > > - CB still breaths a bit heavy and sometimes acts
likes
> > > she's
> > > > > > trying to spit something out (backing up and shaking
> head).
> > I
> > > > did
> > > > > > see her spit out a piece of food one time that she was
> doing
> > > > > this.
> > > > > > Could she be having trouble adjusting to the Omega One
> > pellets
> > > > > from
> > > > > > the Tetra flakes?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think it may be time to lower the salt level some.
> What
> > > I'm
> > > > > > seeing now, other than the stringy white and clear poop,
> > > pretty
> > > > > much
> > > > > > fits the descriptions I've read of osmotic stress, and
I'm
> > not
> > > > > sure
> > > > > > how much more CB can take.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish
> > > > > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven)
> > > > > > >
Posts
Hello,
ReplyDeleteThis is really interesting take on the concept.I never thought of it that way. I came across this site recently which I think it will be a great use of new ideas and informations. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Commercial Ice Machine