I've written about and used the Internet Archives Wayback Machine many times in the many forums from hobby to computer tech forums that I participate in on a regular basis but I've been seeing MORE and MORE websites shutting down in the past two years so I wanted to write this short article to inform people of how the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (IAWM) works so you can find information from any of your favorite websites that have gone away.
There's a couple of ways to get to the IAWM.
http://archive.org/ - The home page for the Internet Archives, then on that page, right near the top middle, you'll see a section about the Wayback Machine, where you can enter a URL (website address aka a link) into the field and click Enter or click the "Take Me Back" button and it will bring you to a page of dated links for every snapshot that the Wayback Machine has concerning that website URL.
The other ways to get directly to the IAWM page is:
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php or the advanced search page, http://web.archive.org/collections/web/advanced.html.
Here's how it works...
I use to publish articles on a free Yahoo website called GeoCities but Yahoo decided to close down GeoCities in 2009 so folks no longer have access to their web pages unless they know about the Wayback Machine.
Here was one of my original GeoCities links (which no longer work)...
http://www.GeoCities.com/LennyVasbinderPI/Politics_Start
Of course, clicking that link brings you to a page saying the site no longer exists.
Now, if you go to the IAWM and copy/paste or type that URL into the blank field and click "Take Me Back", it will bring you to this page, http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.GeoCities.com/LennyVasbinderPI/Politics_Start, where you will see a series of dated links where the Internet Archives Wayback Machine took snapshots of my web page between 2002 and 2006, which would have been the last time I updated that site since I started using Blogger Blogspot's to post my blogs/articles since then.
Other websites that have been archived include many of the articles on MSN Groups when Microsoft decided to close them down in 2008.
For my fish keeping hobby, at least three LONG-TIME very good websites have shut down in the past two years, http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/, http://www.plecofanatics.com/ and http://www.plantgeek.net/ but most, if not all of their articles and many of their forum threads are preserved on the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.
I never did use AOL (aka AOHell to many) but I know that AOL shut down millions of web pages in their "home town" section, at least I think that is what it was called, and many AOL members complained viciously when they lost all of their web pages, online photo albums (which reminds me that Yahoo shut down Yahoo Photo Albums a few years ago when they bought out Flickr.com), etc... so hopefully, any of those folks that thought they lost everything might be able to find some of their data and/or pictures using the Wayback Machine.
All that said, some websites prevent search engines from crawling their pages and for those websites, the IAWM may have also been blocked from crawling the website which means all data may be lost forever in those cases.
I'll probably be adding to this article from time to time so check back... or if you have any questions, please feel free to leave a "Comment" below (click the Comments link at the bottom of this article, if the Comments box isn't already open).
Lenny Vasbinder aka GoldLenny in fish forums
-----------
You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.
Monday, June 28, 2010
Friday, June 25, 2010
Oil??????????????? - A Continuation Of The Online Debate And Discussion Of The BP Oil Accident
This is a continuation of the blog I wrote last week, which you can read here:
http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/my-first-online-debate-about-so-called.html
--------------
LATE BREAKING NEWS ABOUT THE OIL SPILL....
Subject: BP:innovative solutions
________________________________
BP announced that this morning they installed a wedding ring around the leaking pipe and it quit putting out.
________________________________
ROTFLMFAO!!!!
Also, check out this FUNNY Jon Stewart clip from The Daily Show to put all of this in perspective:
While I'm not a big fan of Jon Stewart's political leanings, he does come up with some pretty good comedy skits on a regular basis and this one goes right in line with the previous blogs about my online discussion and debate of the BP Oil Spill accident. The FACT that the last eight presidents and the past 15 Congress' have FAILED to deliver on their so-called "green energy" concepts is what leads me to so strongly believe that they will not succeed this time either... so until they CAN PROVE that their concepts will work, they should free up the private sector to DRILL BABY DRILL, MINE BABY MINE, BUILD BABY BUILD (Nuclear Power Plants)... as least we KNOW those work... since, based on the past 30 years, we KNOW government can't do it it... much like they screw up most everything else they try to do. I don't know why the government is even involved in "green energy". It wasn't the government that developed coal mining or drilling for oil.. it was the private sector. The government did have a big hand in nuclear power but ONLY after private scientists discovered the capabilities of nuclear fission. Anyhow... you can Google for the history of nuclear power but here's the Jon Stewart Daily Show skit...
Here's the link to the above video in case it decides to stop working...
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future
----------
Here's the continuation / new discussion and debate started with this post in the AquaticLife Yahoo Group:
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:06 PM
To: AquaticLife
Subject: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
I'm sorry ------------------------- I liked it better when we had the controversy going ---------- at least there was mail.
About 3 new messages in almost as many days.
List is all but dead! Nobody is having ANY problems?
Impossible!
Lenny, IS everyone out swimming and boating? Maybe we should start a thread about Food Recipes?
Bill
------------
--- On Tue, 6/22/10, jaikowrote:
From: jaiko
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 10:15 PM
lol bill we r all working for bp so we are busy around here...lol
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Dax Gorham
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:40 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Ha it should be easy to start a disagreement and get the mail flowing .... now where would you like that disagreement to be???????????????? LOL
Daniel John Gorham
daxgor@yahoo.com
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:08 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
LOL. You have to wait till midnight on Friday to have an OT-weekend free-for-all... if the mods allow it. Just remember to put OT at the start of the subject line so folks know that it's OFF TOPIC! ;-)
There have been other posts though... something about a baby Cory's anus... or was that aeneus? LOL And I saw a post about breeding Licorice Gourami's but I don't think anyone answered it.
I ended my last reply in the Gulf Of Mexico Biotope Tank thread with a bunch of fish recipes... although I didn't get to find out what a Mermaid.... oops.. better not go there! ;-) I didn't find me a terrestrial mermaid this past weekend anyhow so it's a moot point. :-(
Watch... Mike (Deneerz) will chime in now. I think he has a Google alert set up for whenever I mention mermaid. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:14 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
You have both my prayers and sympathy! A nightmare of epic proportions to say the least. Many, many folks have already taken down their BP gas station signs in anger and protest. It does not look to good for any of us, the company or the Wildlife either! A no win situation.
Bill
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:34 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
I ONLY buy BP gas right now... oh yeah... and their stock too! Buy low and sell high!
What Congress and the Obama are trying to do and/or doing to BP is outrageous and at the height of hypocrisy from a bunch of mostly crooked politicians... and when compared to what Congress and the Pres are intentionally doing to America... what the BP oil rig accident is doing is FAR less of a disaster or catastrophe.
Thank God, today, Judge Feldman (no relation to Marty) threw out Obama's moratorium on the ongoing drilling down here so at least some piece of sanity is coming back! And we may not have tens of thousands of American's dying this winter and in coming years due to the high price or complete unavailability of heating oil.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:38 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Oh you mean the judge that is deeply vested in stock with Transocean and BP?
-------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:13 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Eric Roberts said: "Oh you mean the judge that is deeply vested in stock with Transocean and BP?"
----------
There you go again (in my best Reagan voice)... spreading LIES again... oops.. maybe I should use politician speak and say "untruths" or "misinformation" but I don't have a problem calling a spade a spade! It's a LIE!
Now, that said, while it may be true that Judge Feldman owns or maybe OWNED (past tense) stock in Transocean, but less than $15,000.00 worth back in 2008, (YEAH ERIC.. THAT'S "DEEPLY VESTED"... you must be on welfare and food stamps if you think $15,000.00 is a lot of money), he DOES NOT own any stock in BP. You need to stop reading HuffPo BLOGS as your source of the news... either that or stay off the wacky tobaccky... as your paranoia is getting the best of you now! ;-)
If you do a search of Google News, for 'judge feldman owns BP stock', there are only 291 hits as of right now and most of the summaries and websites are NOT from what I would call reputable News sources... sites like the top hit, Grist Magazine (how is that the top hit - WTF is a Grist Magazine anyhow???), FireDogLake Blog (yeah... that one sounds reputable), San Francisco Chronicle Blog, etc. Heck, I didn't know Google was considering Blog's as News sources now and if that's the case, then it's OFFICIAL... "Obama Is A Post Turtle"... since one of my blogs is about that. LOL http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/obama-is-post-turtle.html
Even CBS News, one of the liberal-left leaning LSM (Lame Stream Media) networks that are/were in the tank for Obama reported:
"...Feldman's financial disclosure report for 2008, the most recent available, shows holdings in at least eight petroleum companies or companies that invest in them, including Transocean Ltd., which owned the Deepwater Horizon. The report shows that most of his holdings were valued at less than $15,000, though it did not provide specific amounts.
It's not clear whether Feldman still has all of the energy industry stock listed in the report. RECENT COURT FILINGS INDICATE HE MAY NO LONGER HAVE TRANSOCEAN SHARES (regular print changed to ALL CAPS by Lenny for emphasis). He did not own any shares in big companies such as BP PLC, which was leasing the rig that exploded, or ExxonMobil..."
From: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/22/national/main6607071.shtml
I actually like this San Francisco blog on the MarketWatch website (part of Wall Street Journal), obviously written by a left-coast so-called reporter, which says (in his obviously biased reporting) but at least he ends the article on an honest note:
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Here's a story everyone can agree to hate.
Martin Feldman, the federal judge who overturned a White House moratorium on deepwater drilling, was an investor in several offshore oil service companies that stand to benefit from his decision. Outrageous!
But seriously. Is anyone really shocked that a man who literally holds court in Louisiana, whose career is defined by local politics and who probably pays close attention to local economics ruled that a six-month ban on deepwater drilling in the Gulf was "arbitrary and capricious"?
Feldman is widely reported to have been a Transocean shareholder as recently as 2008. Maybe he still is....
... But let's face it. Nearly everyone along the Gulf Coast is conflicted by this tragedy. Even fishermen whose livelihoods are on the line understand the importance of the oil industry to their state's economy.
And it doesn't stop there. This conflict goes right to the heart of the nation's schizophrenic energy policy. Americans far removed from the spill are outraged by the environmental devastation spreading throughout the Gulf of Mexico. But are they so outraged that they're giving up their cars? Is anyone calling for a moratorium on oil?
Feldman might not have been the best choice to hear this case, but the American people aren't necessarily the best choice to pass judgment on the oil industry either.
-- Jim Jelter
From: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/passing-judgment-on-the-gulf-spill-2010-06-23?reflink=MW_news_stmp
So Eric and any other hypocrites out there... how is that bicycle riding coming along??? Just make sure you don't use rubber tires or oil on your chain and bearings... those are petroleum based!
I wish States like Louisiana, Texas, Alaska and other ENERGY-RICH States would just cut off the bleeding heart States that don't want to drill or mine in their own areas... and let all of them start riding their bikes everywhere, die from heat exhaustion during the summers and freeze to death during the winters... and turn their cars into planters for their wacky tobaccky or maybe put a Crucifix or statue of Jesus in their car and fill it with urine or feces and call it artwork... WHAT A BUNCH OF FREAKING FREAKS!!!
Bill... are you happier now? LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:50 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Hi Len,
Happy? That's a relative term but I think I can state my case simply enough for you.
Off- shore drilling employs many thousands of people. It's dangerous work to say the least, so is working on or near Nuclear Power plants. Their need is justified and also necessary, to a point.
Unfortunately though, their very existence threatens many other things, not discounting people themselves. These things both offer pathways or alternatives to the energy crises situation we all live with daily.
But these industries suffer from extremely high profit margins but no on-board safe guards. In short, when these folks have an "accident" it quickly assumes monumental proportions. The cost of human life rises sharply and the cost to the environment, well that's the big question, isn't it. And who pays for it in the end?
Already there is worry for the folks in your neighborhood down there about BP going belly -up. Who pays for all of it in the end? The company? They go belly-up, declare bankruptcy, hide a bit and become re-born again under a different corp. name and start all over. I truly believe the President is only trying to insure REAL safeguards so these "accidents" can't happen again and if they do, the proper things are in place to deal with the problem. We didn't learn much the Valdez mess did we? How are things going up there? Why just fine, those shipping lanes are wide open. Who's really kidding who?
Let's stay on fish subjects, after all they don't vote!
Bill
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:22 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
BP is not going belly-up. Start watching Bill O'Reilly instead of the LSM. BP has over 100 TRILLION DOLLARS in oil reserves so the 20 BILLION or more that this will cost is not going to bankrupt them. (NOTE: a TRILLION is a THOUSAND BILLION in case folks forget how much those first two letters cost us taxpayers when our elected liars, crooks and thieves have now deficit spent us up to THIRTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS and climbing to TWENTY TRILLION DOLLAR level under Obama, according to the Federal Reserves own numbers, which is up from 7.9 TRILLION when the Dem's took over Congress in 2006, so that's a 250% increase in the National Debt in less than 10 years). Yes, the Republicans were bad when they controlled Congress from 1994 thru 2005 (and I and other conservatives have said it a thousand times) but the liberal Dem's, in the past four years, have far outdone any previous records for deficit spending and raising the national debt by leaps and bounds!!!! And that's not counting all of the deficit spending and debt being carried by so many liberal-democrat controlled Cities and States as well.
As far as staying on fish topics... YOU started this new "Oil???" thread.... but then when I force-feed some of you the truth, you want to change the topic. TYPICAL lib!!! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:39 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Bill said: "...But these industries suffer from extremely high profit margins but no on-board safe guards. In short, when these folks have an "accident" it quickly assumes monumental proportions. The cost of human life rises sharply and the cost to the environment, well that's the big question, isn't it. And who pays for it in the end?..."
Bill,
I don't know about nuclear but the oil industrial DOES NOT have "extremely high profit margins". That's a bald-faced lie! Oil companies have to spend their own money to explore, drill, harvest, transport, refine, deliver to gas stations and all they make are a couple of pennies per gallon of gas in profit... whereas Congress does absolutely NOTHING and gets over 18 cents a gallon. Now, exactly who is getting the extremely high profit margins???
As far as "on-board safe guards", these companies have to comply with 6' tall stacks of regulations and permitting through more than a dozen different government offices and have to be inspected and approved at every step.... so if there aren't enough "on-board safe guards", you can once again blame Congress for that as well.
As far as the accident "assumes monumental proportions", it could have been MUCH less today if Obama would have accepted foreign help from day one... or rather day three or four, when it was offered, with written formal notice delivered on April 25, but instead Obama waited until June 14 to accept the help and publicly announced this a couple of days later.
Read more here...
"How The Government Slowed Down The Gulf Cleanup" -
Our own government has quietly admitted that America needs foreign help to handle the oil spill — almost two months after pushing that help away.
Far more oil could have been intercepted before it fouled the Gulf Coast. So why hasn’t our government apologized?
By refusing foreign assistance, we banned both the latest technology and cleanup vessels that far exceed the capacity of America’s oil spill response vessels (OSRVs). We rejected ships with 10 times the capability of the vessels we used instead.
In a quiet announcement on June 18, the Federal On-Scene Coordinator (FOSC) finally agreed that we need help, describing a conclusion reached two days before:
“. . . the FOSC, in coordination with other federal agencies, determined on June 16, 2010, pursuant to 46 U.S.C. §55113, that there are an insufficient number of specialized oil skimming vessels in the U.S. to keep pace with the unprecedented levels of oil discharges in the Gulf of Mexico. Based upon this determination, foreign specialized skimming vessels may be deployed to response operations.”
Technically, the Jones Act remains unwaived and continues to restrict use of foreign vessels other than OSRV’s. Officials invoked only a limited exemption that was put into law after Hurricane Katrina.
By their delay, our bureaucracy and government regulation have made a horrible situation even worse. There were two weeks between the April 20 explosion on the Deepwater Horizon and the time when the first oil made landfall. And it was almost six additional weeks before specialized equipment from overseas was approved by our government for limited use.
The Dutch formally offered help on April 25. Not until June 14 did the U.S. State Department announce that some foreign help would be welcomed from the 17 nations who had been trying to assist.
More... http://tinyurl.com/2wo8e4w
for full URL,
http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/Gulf-oil-BP-cleanup/2010/06/22/id/362748?s=al&promo_code=A236-1
You truly believe WRONG about your president. It's all about "never let a disaster go to waste"... the operating status-quo of Obama and his chief of staff, Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel (there's your "fish" word for keeping things on topic). Obama started working on using this accident to further his political agenda LONG before he worried about cleaning up the accident.
How's that hopey-changey thing going for you now??? It's more like Jimmy Carter's presidency on steroids!!!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:54 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
I said " I MISSED ALL THE MAIL-----------I am sorry!
I should have said I MISSED ALL THE "FISH" MAIL!
Mentioned somewhere before, I ALSO said these discussions offer little to the group as a whole so why continue with them? There is no good to come of any of it. Since NONE of us are in such a position of power as to be able to use such valuable advice, any good which might come of it is wasted. Moreover, it lays waste to valuable FISH discussion space.
Bill
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:05 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Nahhh.. you know you wanted the Oil debate again or you wouldn't have started the new thread with the subject line of "Oil??????", which means "Oil Questions"... and your comment in that first post included, "...I'm sorry ------------------------- I liked it better when we had the controversy going ---------- at least there was mail..."
Besides, I did mention Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel in my last post, to keep things on the fish topic. ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of harry perry
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:57 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit
If we're bored I am sure we can find some fish related topics.
This is bullshit and it's getting old quick. If folks like a controversy they can join a group for that. This group is about fish keeping.
We have 2389 members who joined this group to learn about keeping fish not a few members opinions on the oil spill or politics.
If some folks want more mail, join more groups. I have over 350 messages a day in my mailbox.
Maybe the folks that are bored should try submitting some topics for discussion.
What a concept!!!!!.
Harry
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:36 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit
Don't worry Harry... probably less than 200 of the supposed 2,389 people actually get the emails. If you ever look down the list of Members, the overwhelming majority of people are on "No Mail" or "Special Notices" only. Every once in a while, you'll see someone with "Individual Email" or "Daily Digest" but 80-90% DO NOT get mail from the group. So, if 20% are supposed to be getting mail, that would be nearly 500 people BUT out of those who are supposed to be getting email, 303 are bouncing right now, meaning they aren't getting mail either.... which brings my calculations down to the 200 figure... and there's a possibility that many of those remaining 200 don't even open the majority of the emails or they may not be checking their email at all so they're not getting them either.
Start a poll to see how many people still check in with the group. You could have choices like, Individual Emails, Daily Digest, check group daily, 2-3 times a week, once a week, 2-3 times a month, once a month, etc. and after a month or two, check to see what the numbers are. You could also send out a Special Notice of this poll which would possibly reach a few hundred more members.
It's the nature of any forum or group or company or group of voters or humans in general... 90% of the work is done by 10% or less.... and with income taxes collected and wasted by Congress, it's 90%+ of the income taxes are paid by the top 10% or less of the income earners... and then wasted by less than a fraction of 0.1%, particularly 535 as a percentage of 300 Million... which I think is 0.000000178333% but I could be off by one zero.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of jaiko
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:31 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit
i believe gang that were loosing countless fish species as we speak in the gulf of Mexico so this is a fish topic i think?
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:26 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit
Yes, there are fish deaths and other wildlife deaths but I don't think we're losing either countless fish and certainly not entire species. Is there damage being done, yes, but the Gulf of Mexico is a BIG place and the oil is only affecting a very small part of it right now. The Gulf of Mexico recovered from a similarly bad spill back in 1979 from a rig off of Mexico's coast that flowed unabated for a couple of months and we didn't have the technology for cleaning things up back then like we have today... and most folks do not even remember the 1979 spill because it DID NOT kill the Gulf of Mexico... just like this accident will not kill the Gulf of Mexico.
See my last post, an hour or two ago, about what Obama could have done back in April to seriously mitigate the damages... but he waited nearly two months before doing it. For any fish or other wildlife lost during that period, then he has a large percentage of that blood on his hands. I'll wait for the next couple of winters before I play the "I told you so card!" about the price of heating oil and the people that die because they can't afford it or it's not even available... but I did write my blog article a couple of weeks ago so my prediction is well documented.
The Feds are still putting up roadblocks to our efforts to stop the oil from getting into our marshes and coastlines down here. If we lost even more of our marshes, then it will raise the risk of even more humans dying with any big hurricane that hits our area so that blood will be on Obama's hands as well. I wish Gov. Jindal would have our LA Air National Guard patrol our work areas and fire a warning shot over the bow of the next Coast Guard or Wildlife and Fisheries boat that tries to stop our efforts to secure our coastlines.
Lenny for Governor... or better yet, President!!! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:42 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
So the whole business world reporting their record profits was just a big lie Lenny?
Eric
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:56 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Ummmm... except for the SOCIALIST-liberal-democrat mentality, making profit is a GOOD THING!!! Geez... how did my once great pro-capitalism, freedom loving AMERICA degrade into such a pathetic socialistic, pro-BIG-goverment, anti-capitalism mindset for so many people???
Would you rather they lose money like EVERY government run program that us taxpayers pay for... or maybe all of the companies that Obama and Bush thought were "too big to fail" and us taxpayers had to bail them out? Would that be better for you???
"Record profits" happen due for many reasons... such as the rapidly growing and industrializing countries like China and India, so global companies are selling their product to a MUCH larger customer base... just like Walmart sets new records every year for their sales/profits because they are opening up new stores everywhere. They still operate on very small profit margins except they have increased their customer base to increase their profits... usually while lowering their prices. IF ONLY GOVERNMENT COULD LEARN FROM THAT!!!
The "Profit Margin" is still the same for most oil companies... just a couple of pennies per gallon of gas sold... after the oil company did all that work to get the gas to your local gas station.
You should be complaining about your local, State and Federal government skimming HUGE PROFITS off the top of every gallon of gas sold... which adds up to nearly a DOLLAR per gallon in some States. In Louisiana, it's nearly 60 cents a gallon between Federal, State and local taxes on each gallon of gas. That's over a 30% to 50% tax on every gallon of gas and the government DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to produce that gallon of gas except make it harder and harder for the oil companies to drill for it in the first place. When gas was under $2.00 a gallon at retail, the tax was nearly a 100% tax in some States. Without the taxes, the gas would have only cost a dollar a gallon in those States.
A gallon of gas is less than a gallon of bottled water OR a gallon of milk and considering everything the oil companies have to do to get that gallon of gas to your local gas station, it's actually amazing that they can produce gasoline so inexpensively and efficiently. If only government could do things efficiently and effectively!!!
THANKS BP, EXXONMOBIL, SHELL, ETC. God bless all of you guys and gals for making our lives easier and more productive for such a low price!!!!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:52 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
You didn’t answer my question, oh mighty spouter of corporatist propaganda.
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:58 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
In order for me to answer your question, you first have to read my reply... paragraph three in particular, but the rest of my reply as well. I try not to use big words. ;-)
Just so you know, Fox News has reported that Judge M. Feldman DOES NOT own Transocean or BP stock. He divested himself of the Transocean stock and NEVER owned BP stock, and he owned very little of the Transocean stock anyhow, so his ruling is not tarnished by your rumor. If only politicians were so un-tarnished!!!
Further, the Federal Appeals court denied the guv-ments request to stay Judge Feldman's order so the moratorium is lifted!!!! YEEEE-HAWWWWWWWWW!!!! THAR'S OIL IN THEM THAR WELLS!!!! "...BUBBLING CRUDE, OIL THAT IS, BLACK GOLD, TEXAS TEA!!!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkOGM6gHvao
BTW... thanks for the compliment and promotion to "oh mighty"... but Oh Mighty should probably be capitalized since it refers to God... oh wait... you were calling me "oh mighty", not referring to God, so that's OK if it's not capitalized. LOL
But really..."Corporatist propaganda"??? OMG... you really are a socialist!!! I thought I was just messing with you when I called you that in past replies. But I'd MUCH rather be a "corporatist" than a socialist... so I thank you for that compliment! ;-)
But speaking of fish... I CAN'T believe you buy fish or anything else from pet stores or anywhere else... those are ALL capitalist ventures as well.... and YOU'RE SUPPORTING THEM.. you better not let all your commie-lib friends... or would that be fellow comrades find out! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
Here's my latest political blog which includes much of this new thread and some other good stuff!!! http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/oil.html I do allow comments so feel free to move the debate/discussion over there to keep folks happier over here.
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:56 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Lenny do you like to kick sleeping dogs too? ;)
Amber
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:14 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
My dogs have always been smart enough to learn not to sleep in the middle of a walkway... it usually only took one kick! Some humans, sadly, aren't so trainable. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of jaiko
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:00 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
how about them dolphins?..lol
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 8:33 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
The Saints beat 'em 46-34... after being down by 21 points... on the way to eventually winning the Superbowl this year!!! WHO DAT!!!
Now I have to add my "SAINTS WIN!!!" signature too! LOL
Oooops... does cheering for my Saints also make me a "corporatist" propagandist? LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-)
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of William M
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:53 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oil????????????????????????????
Lenny,
In one of your previous post, you mentioned that this oil spill is not killing the gulf. Does this mean that you are using the water from the gulf to change water in your tanks? Are you going down and swimming in the oily gulf water? Why is BP allowed to burn oil where they know that endangered turtles are going to be killed? Do they have to go to court like anyone else that might kill an endangered animal?
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:08 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oil????????????????????????????
Nope... I am not using water from the Gulf... it's saltwater (although I may use it for my proposed Gulf Of Mexico Biotope Tank.. lol)... but I do use water from the Mississippi River which IS FAR MORE POLLUTED than the Gulf... thanks to all the upriver States dumping so much crap into the river before it gets down here. Fortunately, it's cleaned up real good before it gets to my place! ;-)
I went swimming in the NOT oily Gulf this past weekend. The entire Gulf and/or coastline is NOT soaked in oil... not withstanding the few video clips that the LSM (Lame Stream Media) plays over and over and over showing that one pathetic looking oil covered pelican and a few other clips showing the worst of the worst. The MAJORITY of the coastline is still mostly unaffected by anything more than some tar balls that wash ashore when the tide comes in. Please note that tar balls wash ashore ALL beaches ALL year long due to NATURAL seepage from ocean bottom oil leaks... "NATURAL" meaning not caused by man.
You should look at a Google Earth image of the oil spill. While it's certainly not a good thing for the areas that the spill is affecting, it's only a fraction of the Gulf of Mexico that is being affected right now and the 1979 spill was still worse... although this spill is catching up fast! My blog article back on June 7th includes a graph of the world's worst oil spills and the BP spill is still WAY down on the chart.
http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/graph-says-it-all-bp-oil-spill-compared.html
Here's my entire series of now eight articles about the BP oil spill, which includes the above article.. if the above link breaks, it's included in the below shorter link.
http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP
If Obama would have allowed foreign help starting back on April 25th... instead of waiting until June 14th... and if he would have IMMEDIATELY mobilized the 2,000+ skimmers that are based in America, instead of the ONLY 46 or so that were in the Gulf area already, there would be FAR LESS oil in the water and possibly NONE coming on shore since 2,000+ skimmers would have been sucking it up way out in the middle of the Gulf instead of us having to just watch it get closer and closer to our shorelines as the days and weeks went by. All of this is also documented in my more recent articles.
The 20 BILLION DOLLAR fund that BP has set up does cover the cost of cleaning up the entire spill, cleaning up any oil covered animals and also covers paying fines for each animal that dies as a result of the spill.
They are allowed to burn the oil right now because that is what the Federal Government approved. Blame Congress for that. I still scratch my head as to why they are burning it instead of loading it all into an oil tanker to be processed but one of my more recent blog articles have information as to why they are doing it that way. Something about the oily water being skimmed up is 80-90% water and has already been treated with the chemical dispersants so it's not easily refined and more easily burned. Once again, blame Congress who writes all of the laws that govern the writing of all of the rules and regulations. Congress has been controlled by the Democratic Party since 2006... but I guess they'll try to blame Bush also instead of accepting responsibility for their actions and inactions.
Please reply with any comments on my non-fish blog, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/, since some members of this group do not like talking about the oil spill. Just click the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article and bash me or applaud me all you want. I'm a big boy and I take it all in stride! ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:52 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
You are just plainly ignorant… especially if you would rather be called a corporatist. But I think that Mussolini and Hitler would be proud to have you amongst their ranks as fellow corporatists.
Oh yes, Fox, that bastion of truth and honesty…right…
In 2008 Feldman had financial holdings with Transocean, the company that owned the faulty oil rig. [6]According to the Fiscal Disclosure Report required by the Ethics in Government Act of 1978, Judge Feldman held the following relevant energy and oil industry investments, with a heavy incidence of Louisiana based businesses:
BlackRock ($12000- $36000); Ocean Energy ($1000 – $2500); NGP Capital Resources ($1000 – $2500); Quicksilver Resources ($5000 – $15000); Hercules Offshore ($6000 – $17500); Provident Energy; Peabody Energy; PenGrowth Energy; RPC Inc; Atlas Energy Resources; Parker Drilling; TXCO Resources; EV Energy Partners; Rowan Companies; BPZ Resources; El Paso Corp; KBR Inc; Chesapeake Energy and ATP Oil & Gas. [7]
For the Lousiana Judgeapedia project judgepedia.org/index.php/Martin_Feldman
No ties to the oil industry there…
Eric
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:44 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
No, I'm not ignorant... I'm just NOT a socialist.
Typical lib... play the race card or the Hitler card when you can't win on the facts.
Neither Hitler nor Mussolini believed in capitalism.
"The Nazis accused communism and capitalism of being associated with Jewish influences and interests.[16] They declared support for a nationalist form of socialism that was to provide for... : economic security, social welfare programs for workers, a just wage, honour for workers' importance to the nation, and protection from capitalist exploitation.[17]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
That sounds MUCH MORE like the Democratic-liberal-socialist party than the Republican party... yet my Jewish friends still vote mostly for the Democrats but they can never explain to my why? Go figure!
Fox News is FAR MORE "Fair and Balanced" than any other news network. All of the other LSM networks are so far left-leaning, they have to lean their cameras so their anchors appear to be sitting up straight. LOL
Once again... you're not reading my replied.
Judge Feldman divested (that means sold) his TransOcean stock since that 2008 report. As far as his other energy related holdings... none of them amount to very much money. If you have a retirement plan, you probably have as much of a percentage of your investments in energy companies also. Even if you are going to rely on only Social Security, much of the money that comes into Congress is energy related taxes and fees.
Considering Obama got around A MILLION DOLLARS from BP and many more millions from all of the other energy companies, he's far more culpable and in bed with big energy than Judge Feldman... hmmmmm.. I wonder if that is why the Obama administration gave that BP rig a big thumbs up on all their permits and inspections just two weeks prior to the explosion???
As far as your last comment about "no ties to the oil industry", there is NOBODY in America or probably the world without any ties to the oil industry... maybe some jungle tribes who have never had contact with the outside world... but that's about it.
Have you ever owned or driven a car? Oil industry related!
Have you ever owned or ridden a bike? Oil industry related!
Have you ever worn polyester clothing? Oil industry related!
Are you using a computer and the internet that relies on various plastics and polymers for them to work? Oil industry related.
Do you use energy to heat or cool your apartment? Oil industry related!
OMG.... you better throw everything you own away and go move in with one of them aforementioned jungle tribes. I hear there is good fish collecting down in the Amazon so you won't have to support them capitalist pet stores either! LOL
Sheesh... I might have to go out and buy Glenn Beck's book, "Arguing With Idiots" http://www.glennbeck.com/bookczar/ ... I'm sure he must have a chapter that covers this discussion.
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:49 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Lenny I don't even read most of your replies, especially ones not about FISH :P I've asked twice for this argument to stop and it hasn't yet. I'm about to start denying replies on purpose instead of letting someone else approve them so that you can reply again and continue the arguments.
They're getting old.
Amber
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
I keep LMAO down here, because you and some of the other mods are the biggest complainers about this thread.... yet they keep on approving the posts. I only reply to the ones that are allowed by someone else in the first place. I didn't start the thread but as long as the mods are allowing one side to post, then they have to allow the other side an appropriate response.
I've looked at the moderator's logs on the group's website and several different mods have been approving the posts. Every time one is approved, I check to see who approved it. Of course, not all members are moderated so some of their replies just come through without moderation.
I just do my part and post an appropriate and factual reply... since everyone else is too apathetic to do so... and probably because I know more about the truth about the BP spill than anyone else in the group... at least those that are active.
Of course, to answer your last sentence, I think people's apathy is "getting old". I'd MUCH RATHER have an involved citizenship than a bunch of people who cover their ears and chant LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA whenever politics or religion comes up in the conversation. They're the two things that affect EVERYBODY'S lives the most and yet people want to play ostrich whenever the subject comes up. ;-)
After sending this reply, I'll put myself back on moderation and let you all allow whatever you want to allow... which will probably just be one sided replies from those not on moderation from now on, since that would seem to make some of you happy... then everyone can go back to covering their ears and eyes and chanting LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!
Lenny Vasbinder
THINGS THEN WENT OFF-LIST BETWEEN ME AND SOME OF THE MODERATORS:
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife-owner@
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 6:28 PM
To: 'AquaticLife Moderator'
Subject: Political/religious discussions.
Okay I know I haven't been a moderator for very long, but I have a request that we create and enforce a new rule for the group; No religious/political discussions. We should consider this much similar to the rules you have at a work place, there's a reason there are no political or religious discussions; because people do not agree, and there are too many opinions to be expressed. Not to mention that people get easily upset and rude when they're talking about their beliefs.
Thanks for listening,
Amber
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:50 PM
To: 'arberglund@gmail.com'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.
(covers eyes and ears with hands so I do not see or hear this offensive email and then get all "upset and rude" if I do see or hear it... why didn't I just delete the email???? God, I just don't know!!!)
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(while eyes and ears are covered, I mutter a reply anyhow)
I CAN'T HEAR OR SEE THIS EMAIL BECAUSE IT HAS THE TOPIC OF "POLITICAL/RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS" AND I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE MY EYES AND EARS ARE COVERED SO I'M TYPING AND REPLYING IN A LOUDER VOICE SINCE I CAN'T HEAR MYSELF EITHER.
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(uncovers eyes and ears for a moment to see if email went away... it didn't... so I reply)
And what about when people "do not agree" about something related to fish keeping... does that mean we can't discuss that either so as not to offend anyone??? I've seen folks get just as offended when I explain they cannot keep a goldfish in a bowl when the PetsMart employee told them they could have five goldfish in the same bowl.
(covers eyes and ears again since I don't want to hear an answer that I "do not agree" with)
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(uncovers eyes and ears again just for a moment to see if email went away... it didn't once again... so I reply again)
Political correctness, in America, run amuck!!!
(covers eyes and ears again so I do not see or hear anything that I "do not agree" with being said or typed by anyone else)
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(uncovers eyes and ears again to see if email went away yet... OH GOD!!!... it's still here and now, even worse,...)
Fox News Channel with Bill O'Reilly just came on and he is discussing Obama's failures and pitiful poll numbers due to his pathetic and pitiful response, in part, to the oil spill, immigration, the Afghanistan war, the pathetically high deficits for the past two years and outrageously high national debt, among other things.
(covers eyes and ears again so I can't see or hear the email or my TV now)
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(I think I feel a warm and fuzzy, blissful feeling coming over me now... maybe even "a tingle running up my leg"... since you know the old saying... "Ignorance Is Bliss!")
LMAO... I know this won't get posted to the group but at least I can add it to both of my blogs and people can choose to read it or not (hit the X or Delete key)... and even post un-moderated comments on MY blogs.... some that I may not even agree with!!!... OMG, the outrage!!!!
And what about when discussing how the various species came to be, since that subject comes up often? Are we only allowed to discuss Darwin's "theory of evolution" and use terms like Mother Nature since we do not want to offend anyone by saying "intelligent design" or "God works in mysterious ways"... and should I NOT capitalize the M and N in Mother Nature since when typing Mother Nature with a capital M and N, I actually meant God??? OMG, I'm so confused now!!!
OMG... is it OK to type OMG since the G stands for God??? Or is it OK since I only used the first letter? Confusion is running amuck now!!!
SMAO!!! Smiling, not laughing, My Ass Off!!!... does anyone really laugh out loud EVERY TIME they type LOL? I guess theor really are more appropriate than the overuse of LOL and LMAO.
I think I'll have to nominate myself for a Pulitzer Prize for this reply... it may well be my best and most satirical reply to an email... EVER!
Heck, now I might even go into a crowded theater and scream FIIIIIIIRRRRRREEEEEEEE!!!!!.... ooops... now I've crossed the freedom of speech line... but everything up to that point was all OK in my book... although the PC Police may not have agreed.
Lenny Vasbinder
----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Amber Berglund
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 8:46 PM
To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny; 'AquaticLife Moderator'
Subject: Re: Political/religious discussions.
No Lenny the point is that we're all adults, and if people can't learn to let arguments drop and act like an adult, then those of us in charge need to "be the better man/woman" and help enforce rules so that hopefully we can keep arguments to a minimum.
politics and religious beliefs are very controversial topics anywhere, and the fact that you had to keep having the last word on the argument shows that you need to learn how to drop it and let everything go back to a more civil tone. You actually encouraged foul language from other members that were arguing with you when you're supposed to be a moderator yourself and keep people in line so to speak.
It's fine to have off topic posts that people want to discuss, but it's another thing encouraging an argument and rude behavior from other members, and continuing to do so when more than just a few people request that the topic be ended.
I think you're a great fountain of information Lenny, but sometimes you really like to pick controversial topics and don't know when to drop them.
Amber
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:44 PM
To: 'arberglund@; 'AquaticLife-owner@'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.
I agree that most of us are adults and therefore we should be able to have an open and honest discussion and debate about anything, even off-topic things and folks could just put OT- in front of the subject. You call it an argument, I call it a discussion and debate.
I have been waiting for the "you had to keep having the last word" card to get played against ME... and nobody else... although I expected it MUCH sooner. ;-) I've heard that MANY times over the past 20+ years but IMO, that's such a pathetic thing that some people say in any discussion or debate... primarily when they don't agree with someone... or when they're losing the debate badly... it's analogous to if you can't win the game, take your ball and go home, IMO.
Someone is always going to get the "last word" eventually... or not... so that "last word" card should/could be applied to EVERYONE who replied in the thread... or even to those that started the threads (cough, cough), since the threads could have gotten shut down after their "last word" instead of MY or someone else's "last word"... and does this mean that only YOUR "last word" is an acceptable "last word" since you were the last to reply to the last thread??? Or was it someone else's "last word" as the "last word" in the threads? When Bill started the new "Oil???????" thread, if nobody replied, then would you play the "last word" card against him? I hope you can see the lunacy or hypocrisy of someone playing the "last word" card... do they think that only they should have the "last word"? Now, if folks wanted to put a message count or time limit on debates/discussions and the buzzer rings, then that would be a more "fair" way of determining the "last word" but for someone else to try and get in the "last word" by playing the "you always have to have the last word" card, then they are as guilty of the "last word" card as the person they are playing it against... I think that's called hypocrisy.
Don't look to me to "keep people in line" when it comes to free speech. I'm a bastion of free speechism so I'm NEVER going to shut someone up... especially when it's on such an important topic as politics and religion... the two things that affect our lives (literally) the most. I've stated this many, many, many times over the years when ever politics and religion comes up... and it always will... regardless of how many people do the LA-LA-LA-LA-LA thing. Millions of people have DIED for our rights to have our politics, religion and free speech and while I might piss on Obama's and many other modern politician's graves... both democrat and republican and especially socialist, fascist and communist, I'll never piss on the grave of someone that stood up and DIED for our rights.... namely the founding fathers and early leaders of America and our members of the military... well, maybe I would piss on John Kerry's grave. LOL Someone much smarter than me once said, "While I may not agree with what you say, I'll fight to the death for your right to say it!" or one of the many other morphs of the original saying.... just like I'm replying to your emails instead of just ignoring them or deleting them... as I believe that you have a right to say what you say... but conversely, SO DO I!!!
I purposely didn't moderate (approve or deny) any of the posts concerning the two political threads and only replied to posts that some other moderator approved, as I knew I would be involved in the discussion and debate and didn't want to be accused of shutting someone up. At any point, any one of the 10+ moderators could have put everyone on moderation, including fellow moderators, just as I put myself on moderation, but NOBODY did so I continued to reply to each and every replies or questions directed towards me.
Now, as far as the "foul language", that is something that could/should be moderated and it's easy enough for any moderator to open a pending message, prior to it being approved, and remove or change any foul language. I personally didn't use any "foul language", although I did use some "fowl language", so any messages that contained "foul language" was either from other members and more particularly, from other moderators. "Bullshit" could have been changed to "Bull manure" or "Bull feces" so it wouldn't be "foul language" yet still get the point across to those that agree with them... but to those of us who don't agree with them, we can just delete the message with that subject line or choose to participate in the discussion and debate.
As far as people that do not want to participate... which unfortunately is a LARGE percentage of apathetic Americans, just like at the polls, they can refuse to show up... or in email terms, they can simply hit the delete key if they see a subject line they are not interested in. That's what I do... it's so simple and it works 100% of the time! Although I show up at the polls 100% of the time since I first registered to vote when I was 18 years old.
These people that complain and leave the group or threaten to leave the group, because they somehow can't hit the delete key, are simply people that do not believe in free speech or do not agree with what one or another party may be saying so they want to shut everyone up by their pathetic threats to leave. I say... take your ball and leave if you're that kind of person... I'll just get another ball and start the game up again after you're gone.
Fortunately, based on the number of off-list emails that I got, there are FAR MORE people that agreed with my positions and were glad I had the balls to say them. Unfortunately, those same folks were too afraid of the PC Police to speak up on-list... but I understand when some people are afraid after being beat into submission by the leftist PC Police.
I might have to morph another old saying... instead of "The only way they'll take my guns, is to pry them from my cold dead fingers!", I'll change it to "The only way they'll take my keyboard, is to pry it from my cold dead fingers!" LOL
NOW... all this said, in the past few days, I've been looking at all the other BIG Yahoo Groups related to fish keeping and if you look at the message count chart on the home page of these many other groups, messages are WAY DOWN in almost every group in the past two years. Only one group stayed pretty consistent and I was going to look at their messages since they were the only group that was consistent, but they have their messages shut down, except for members, so I can't peek at their subject lines until I have time to do so, now that I've been approved for the group. I'll report back later on that.
I haven't gone through and read the thousands of threads for the past two years in all the other open message groups, but I have a theory that the message count is down for one or both of the following theoretical reasons:
1) The economy, unemployment, deficit, national debt, etc., are SO BAD under the last year of Bush and even worse under Obama that people are hoarding their money and are not buying fish so fish talk is down in general. I've also noticed SEVERAL other LONG-TIME online forums that have just shut down and gone away... sites like PlantGeek's, Aquatic-Hobbyist, etc. simply have closed their doors, probably due to lack of participation in the past two years. I'm sure there are many, many others that I do not know about.
My other theoretical reason is:
2) Politics has come up far more often with Obama's socialist, big-government, tax-and-spend, deficit spending the national debt by record levels, Obamacare, etc... so these other groups shut other freedom-of-speech-people up often enough that they just left the groups or no longer participate.... or the relatively few people that don't believe in freedom of speech left the groups OR because one or two people left, the moderators got paranoid and became mini-dictators and everyone else kind of shut up too.... hmmmm.. now that theory sounds familiar! ;-)
As you see, I do neither! ;-) I try to practice what I preach... whether it be fish keeping related or far more important topics like politics and religion.
Here are several other group's home pages where you can see the message count charts to verify what I've theorized above.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SaltWaterAquariums/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reefcity/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub/ (the only relatively consistent message count group)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums/
And last but not least, http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
Those are the three biggest FW and SW yahoo groups, in no particular order, and all but one are suffering MAJOR decreases in message count in the past two years and even the TropicalFishClub, which by the way is the #1 group as far as total members, with 2,637 (of course they could have 80-90% spam-bot members harvesting email addresses as well), but they haven't had as many messages as AquaticLife each month, in the past... so I'm not sure what Aaron bases the "#1" designation on the AquaticLife home page to know if he means membership count or message count or if it's like a Nobel Pease Prize (such as Obama's, AlGore's and Jimmy Carter's... when Reagan did FAR MORE to promote and preserve world peace than those three combined and probably more than any other on the list and yet, he never got one... because it's all based on liberal-socialist politics, not on real peace - http://nobelprizes.com/nobel/peace/) or many of the Pulitzer Prizes that are based on made up science or facts ... or if the "#1" designation is like when I give myself a "Lenny Award" for outstanding whatever. LOL
Of course, maybe Aaron designated AquaticLife as #1 because I'm a member! Now that would be worthy of a "Lenny Award"!!!! Let me know Aaron, so I can get that right out to you! LOL
AquaticLife has lost FAR MORE members due to the overall LARGE number of posts... often topping more than 1,000 a month, than due to the political or religious threads. As I reported in an earlier post, at least 80% of people are on no-mail or special notices only and of the remaining 500 members who are supposed to be getting emails, over 300 are bouncing... primarily due to their email boxes being filled up so new emails are returned to sender. In between the two GREAT DEBATE threads, I offered a solution to at least try and harvest and/or save all of the saltwater members who have come and gone over the years but you and I think Harry were the only other moderators to reply so until Aaron replies with a yea or nay, I've put that on the back burner.
BTW... I welcome your reply since I certainly wouldn't want to be the "last word". ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:51 PM
To: 'arberglund@gmail.com'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.
Ohhh.. I meant to add to that utterly ridiculous Nobel Peace Prize list that included Obama, AlGore and Carter... they gave a Nobel Peace Price to: "1990 - MIKHAIL SERGEYEVICH GORBACHEV , President of the USSR, helped to bring the Cold War to an end." which further illustrates the lunacy and hypocrisy and socialist-liberal mindset of that group since THE ONLY REASON Gorbachev helped bring the Cold War to an end was DUE TO PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN AND AMERICA'S MILITARY STRENGTH... do you remember America's Star Wars Missile Defense Program and the "Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" speech or were you too young?
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of harry perry
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 9:02 PM
To: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Lenny, this post is a crock of shit.
In reference to Lenny's reply starting with: "I keep LMAO down here, because you and some of the other mods are the biggest complainers about this thread.... yet they keep on approving the posts. I only reply to the ones that are allowed by someone else in the first place. I didn't start the thread but as long as the mods are allowing one side to post, then they have to allow the other side an appropriate response...."
Harry replied:
All you did was make an ass out of all the moderators.
I for one have no problem discussing politics, religion or anything else. Of course if we discuss this privately you won't have an audience.
It doesn't belong in a fish keeping group. This is not a forum for involved citizenship.
Something you just don't seem to get, this group isn't about you and your ideas.
It's a team effort. It's goal is fish keeping not what Lenny thinks we should be talking about.
If we want to stick our fingers in our ears or anywhere else it's none of your f------ business.
We joined this group because we have something in common we love fish.
We didn't join the Lenny Admiration Society.
Most of us use our hobbies and interests to maintain our sanity. So when we tune in here what do we get?. More of the same shit.
I hope we can procede as a team towards the same goal. FISH KEEPING.
Harry
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:10 PM
To: 'harry perry'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Lenny, this post is a crock of shit.
I applaud your freedom of speech but I think you violated Amber's "foul language" rule... and make sure you wash that finger! ;-)
Your rant's and outrage should really be against those who started the threads and/or the moderators who approved the first message and then continued to approve the follow-up replies... for which I did neither.
And as far as whether it is my business if you want to cover your ears and ignore things... actually that is my business since ignorant American's are the ones that keep voting in the stupid-assed politicians that are doing the stupid-assed things to America (ooops... I just violated Amber's rule too).
Once again, I only replied to posts/threads that were first approved by a moderator or by un-moderated members, so if you feel I made an ass out of the other moderators, for those that approved the messages, if the shoe fits, wear it... of course, personally I'm VERY proud of those moderators for having a pair and being willing to approve the messages... but once again, your complaints and anger are aimed at the wrong person. What's the old saying, "Don't kill the messenger!"
I like that "Lenny Admiration Society" though... maybe I'll start up a Yahoo Group by that name... of course, I'll probably be the only member. ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
Also click the BP or BP OIL SPILL "label" links on the left side to read all of my other related articles about the BP spill.
You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.
http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/my-first-online-debate-about-so-called.html
--------------
LATE BREAKING NEWS ABOUT THE OIL SPILL....
Subject: BP:innovative solutions
________________________________
BP announced that this morning they installed a wedding ring around the leaking pipe and it quit putting out.
________________________________
ROTFLMFAO!!!!
Also, check out this FUNNY Jon Stewart clip from The Daily Show to put all of this in perspective:
While I'm not a big fan of Jon Stewart's political leanings, he does come up with some pretty good comedy skits on a regular basis and this one goes right in line with the previous blogs about my online discussion and debate of the BP Oil Spill accident. The FACT that the last eight presidents and the past 15 Congress' have FAILED to deliver on their so-called "green energy" concepts is what leads me to so strongly believe that they will not succeed this time either... so until they CAN PROVE that their concepts will work, they should free up the private sector to DRILL BABY DRILL, MINE BABY MINE, BUILD BABY BUILD (Nuclear Power Plants)... as least we KNOW those work... since, based on the past 30 years, we KNOW government can't do it it... much like they screw up most everything else they try to do. I don't know why the government is even involved in "green energy". It wasn't the government that developed coal mining or drilling for oil.. it was the private sector. The government did have a big hand in nuclear power but ONLY after private scientists discovered the capabilities of nuclear fission. Anyhow... you can Google for the history of nuclear power but here's the Jon Stewart Daily Show skit...
| The Daily Show With Jon Stewart | Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c | |||
| An Energy-Independent Future | ||||
| ||||
Here's the link to the above video in case it decides to stop working...
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future
----------
Here's the continuation / new discussion and debate started with this post in the AquaticLife Yahoo Group:
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:06 PM
To: AquaticLife
Subject: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
I'm sorry ------------------------- I liked it better when we had the controversy going ---------- at least there was mail.
About 3 new messages in almost as many days.
List is all but dead! Nobody is having ANY problems?
Impossible!
Lenny, IS everyone out swimming and boating? Maybe we should start a thread about Food Recipes?
Bill
------------
--- On Tue, 6/22/10, jaiko
From: jaiko
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 10:15 PM
lol bill we r all working for bp so we are busy around here...lol
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Dax Gorham
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:40 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Ha it should be easy to start a disagreement and get the mail flowing .... now where would you like that disagreement to be???????????????? LOL
Daniel John Gorham
daxgor@yahoo.com
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:08 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
LOL. You have to wait till midnight on Friday to have an OT-weekend free-for-all... if the mods allow it. Just remember to put OT at the start of the subject line so folks know that it's OFF TOPIC! ;-)
There have been other posts though... something about a baby Cory's anus... or was that aeneus? LOL And I saw a post about breeding Licorice Gourami's but I don't think anyone answered it.
I ended my last reply in the Gulf Of Mexico Biotope Tank thread with a bunch of fish recipes... although I didn't get to find out what a Mermaid.... oops.. better not go there! ;-) I didn't find me a terrestrial mermaid this past weekend anyhow so it's a moot point. :-(
Watch... Mike (Deneerz) will chime in now. I think he has a Google alert set up for whenever I mention mermaid. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:14 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
You have both my prayers and sympathy! A nightmare of epic proportions to say the least. Many, many folks have already taken down their BP gas station signs in anger and protest. It does not look to good for any of us, the company or the Wildlife either! A no win situation.
Bill
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:34 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
I ONLY buy BP gas right now... oh yeah... and their stock too! Buy low and sell high!
What Congress and the Obama are trying to do and/or doing to BP is outrageous and at the height of hypocrisy from a bunch of mostly crooked politicians... and when compared to what Congress and the Pres are intentionally doing to America... what the BP oil rig accident is doing is FAR less of a disaster or catastrophe.
Thank God, today, Judge Feldman (no relation to Marty) threw out Obama's moratorium on the ongoing drilling down here so at least some piece of sanity is coming back! And we may not have tens of thousands of American's dying this winter and in coming years due to the high price or complete unavailability of heating oil.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:38 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Oh you mean the judge that is deeply vested in stock with Transocean and BP?
-------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:13 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Eric Roberts said: "Oh you mean the judge that is deeply vested in stock with Transocean and BP?"
----------
There you go again (in my best Reagan voice)... spreading LIES again... oops.. maybe I should use politician speak and say "untruths" or "misinformation" but I don't have a problem calling a spade a spade! It's a LIE!
Now, that said, while it may be true that Judge Feldman owns or maybe OWNED (past tense) stock in Transocean, but less than $15,000.00 worth back in 2008, (YEAH ERIC.. THAT'S "DEEPLY VESTED"... you must be on welfare and food stamps if you think $15,000.00 is a lot of money), he DOES NOT own any stock in BP. You need to stop reading HuffPo BLOGS as your source of the news... either that or stay off the wacky tobaccky... as your paranoia is getting the best of you now! ;-)
If you do a search of Google News, for 'judge feldman owns BP stock', there are only 291 hits as of right now and most of the summaries and websites are NOT from what I would call reputable News sources... sites like the top hit, Grist Magazine (how is that the top hit - WTF is a Grist Magazine anyhow???), FireDogLake Blog (yeah... that one sounds reputable), San Francisco Chronicle Blog, etc. Heck, I didn't know Google was considering Blog's as News sources now and if that's the case, then it's OFFICIAL... "Obama Is A Post Turtle"... since one of my blogs is about that. LOL http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/obama-is-post-turtle.html
Even CBS News, one of the liberal-left leaning LSM (Lame Stream Media) networks that are/were in the tank for Obama reported:
"...Feldman's financial disclosure report for 2008, the most recent available, shows holdings in at least eight petroleum companies or companies that invest in them, including Transocean Ltd., which owned the Deepwater Horizon. The report shows that most of his holdings were valued at less than $15,000, though it did not provide specific amounts.
It's not clear whether Feldman still has all of the energy industry stock listed in the report. RECENT COURT FILINGS INDICATE HE MAY NO LONGER HAVE TRANSOCEAN SHARES (regular print changed to ALL CAPS by Lenny for emphasis). He did not own any shares in big companies such as BP PLC, which was leasing the rig that exploded, or ExxonMobil..."
From: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/22/national/main6607071.shtml
I actually like this San Francisco blog on the MarketWatch website (part of Wall Street Journal), obviously written by a left-coast so-called reporter, which says (in his obviously biased reporting) but at least he ends the article on an honest note:
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Here's a story everyone can agree to hate.
Martin Feldman, the federal judge who overturned a White House moratorium on deepwater drilling, was an investor in several offshore oil service companies that stand to benefit from his decision. Outrageous!
But seriously. Is anyone really shocked that a man who literally holds court in Louisiana, whose career is defined by local politics and who probably pays close attention to local economics ruled that a six-month ban on deepwater drilling in the Gulf was "arbitrary and capricious"?
Feldman is widely reported to have been a Transocean shareholder as recently as 2008. Maybe he still is....
... But let's face it. Nearly everyone along the Gulf Coast is conflicted by this tragedy. Even fishermen whose livelihoods are on the line understand the importance of the oil industry to their state's economy.
And it doesn't stop there. This conflict goes right to the heart of the nation's schizophrenic energy policy. Americans far removed from the spill are outraged by the environmental devastation spreading throughout the Gulf of Mexico. But are they so outraged that they're giving up their cars? Is anyone calling for a moratorium on oil?
Feldman might not have been the best choice to hear this case, but the American people aren't necessarily the best choice to pass judgment on the oil industry either.
-- Jim Jelter
From: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/passing-judgment-on-the-gulf-spill-2010-06-23?reflink=MW_news_stmp
So Eric and any other hypocrites out there... how is that bicycle riding coming along??? Just make sure you don't use rubber tires or oil on your chain and bearings... those are petroleum based!
I wish States like Louisiana, Texas, Alaska and other ENERGY-RICH States would just cut off the bleeding heart States that don't want to drill or mine in their own areas... and let all of them start riding their bikes everywhere, die from heat exhaustion during the summers and freeze to death during the winters... and turn their cars into planters for their wacky tobaccky or maybe put a Crucifix or statue of Jesus in their car and fill it with urine or feces and call it artwork... WHAT A BUNCH OF FREAKING FREAKS!!!
Bill... are you happier now? LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:50 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Hi Len,
Happy? That's a relative term but I think I can state my case simply enough for you.
Off- shore drilling employs many thousands of people. It's dangerous work to say the least, so is working on or near Nuclear Power plants. Their need is justified and also necessary, to a point.
Unfortunately though, their very existence threatens many other things, not discounting people themselves. These things both offer pathways or alternatives to the energy crises situation we all live with daily.
But these industries suffer from extremely high profit margins but no on-board safe guards. In short, when these folks have an "accident" it quickly assumes monumental proportions. The cost of human life rises sharply and the cost to the environment, well that's the big question, isn't it. And who pays for it in the end?
Already there is worry for the folks in your neighborhood down there about BP going belly -up. Who pays for all of it in the end? The company? They go belly-up, declare bankruptcy, hide a bit and become re-born again under a different corp. name and start all over. I truly believe the President is only trying to insure REAL safeguards so these "accidents" can't happen again and if they do, the proper things are in place to deal with the problem. We didn't learn much the Valdez mess did we? How are things going up there? Why just fine, those shipping lanes are wide open. Who's really kidding who?
Let's stay on fish subjects, after all they don't vote!
Bill
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:22 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
BP is not going belly-up. Start watching Bill O'Reilly instead of the LSM. BP has over 100 TRILLION DOLLARS in oil reserves so the 20 BILLION or more that this will cost is not going to bankrupt them. (NOTE: a TRILLION is a THOUSAND BILLION in case folks forget how much those first two letters cost us taxpayers when our elected liars, crooks and thieves have now deficit spent us up to THIRTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS and climbing to TWENTY TRILLION DOLLAR level under Obama, according to the Federal Reserves own numbers, which is up from 7.9 TRILLION when the Dem's took over Congress in 2006, so that's a 250% increase in the National Debt in less than 10 years). Yes, the Republicans were bad when they controlled Congress from 1994 thru 2005 (and I and other conservatives have said it a thousand times) but the liberal Dem's, in the past four years, have far outdone any previous records for deficit spending and raising the national debt by leaps and bounds!!!! And that's not counting all of the deficit spending and debt being carried by so many liberal-democrat controlled Cities and States as well.
As far as staying on fish topics... YOU started this new "Oil???" thread.... but then when I force-feed some of you the truth, you want to change the topic. TYPICAL lib!!! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:39 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Bill said: "...But these industries suffer from extremely high profit margins but no on-board safe guards. In short, when these folks have an "accident" it quickly assumes monumental proportions. The cost of human life rises sharply and the cost to the environment, well that's the big question, isn't it. And who pays for it in the end?..."
Bill,
I don't know about nuclear but the oil industrial DOES NOT have "extremely high profit margins". That's a bald-faced lie! Oil companies have to spend their own money to explore, drill, harvest, transport, refine, deliver to gas stations and all they make are a couple of pennies per gallon of gas in profit... whereas Congress does absolutely NOTHING and gets over 18 cents a gallon. Now, exactly who is getting the extremely high profit margins???
As far as "on-board safe guards", these companies have to comply with 6' tall stacks of regulations and permitting through more than a dozen different government offices and have to be inspected and approved at every step.... so if there aren't enough "on-board safe guards", you can once again blame Congress for that as well.
As far as the accident "assumes monumental proportions", it could have been MUCH less today if Obama would have accepted foreign help from day one... or rather day three or four, when it was offered, with written formal notice delivered on April 25, but instead Obama waited until June 14 to accept the help and publicly announced this a couple of days later.
Read more here...
"How The Government Slowed Down The Gulf Cleanup" -
Our own government has quietly admitted that America needs foreign help to handle the oil spill — almost two months after pushing that help away.
Far more oil could have been intercepted before it fouled the Gulf Coast. So why hasn’t our government apologized?
By refusing foreign assistance, we banned both the latest technology and cleanup vessels that far exceed the capacity of America’s oil spill response vessels (OSRVs). We rejected ships with 10 times the capability of the vessels we used instead.
In a quiet announcement on June 18, the Federal On-Scene Coordinator (FOSC) finally agreed that we need help, describing a conclusion reached two days before:
“. . . the FOSC, in coordination with other federal agencies, determined on June 16, 2010, pursuant to 46 U.S.C. §55113, that there are an insufficient number of specialized oil skimming vessels in the U.S. to keep pace with the unprecedented levels of oil discharges in the Gulf of Mexico. Based upon this determination, foreign specialized skimming vessels may be deployed to response operations.”
Technically, the Jones Act remains unwaived and continues to restrict use of foreign vessels other than OSRV’s. Officials invoked only a limited exemption that was put into law after Hurricane Katrina.
By their delay, our bureaucracy and government regulation have made a horrible situation even worse. There were two weeks between the April 20 explosion on the Deepwater Horizon and the time when the first oil made landfall. And it was almost six additional weeks before specialized equipment from overseas was approved by our government for limited use.
The Dutch formally offered help on April 25. Not until June 14 did the U.S. State Department announce that some foreign help would be welcomed from the 17 nations who had been trying to assist.
More... http://tinyurl.com/2wo8e4w
for full URL,
http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/Gulf-oil-BP-cleanup/2010/06/22/id/362748?s=al&promo_code=A236-1
You truly believe WRONG about your president. It's all about "never let a disaster go to waste"... the operating status-quo of Obama and his chief of staff, Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel (there's your "fish" word for keeping things on topic). Obama started working on using this accident to further his political agenda LONG before he worried about cleaning up the accident.
How's that hopey-changey thing going for you now??? It's more like Jimmy Carter's presidency on steroids!!!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill 1433
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:54 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
I said " I MISSED ALL THE MAIL-----------I am sorry!
I should have said I MISSED ALL THE "FISH" MAIL!
Mentioned somewhere before, I ALSO said these discussions offer little to the group as a whole so why continue with them? There is no good to come of any of it. Since NONE of us are in such a position of power as to be able to use such valuable advice, any good which might come of it is wasted. Moreover, it lays waste to valuable FISH discussion space.
Bill
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:05 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Nahhh.. you know you wanted the Oil debate again or you wouldn't have started the new thread with the subject line of "Oil??????", which means "Oil Questions"... and your comment in that first post included, "...I'm sorry ------------------------- I liked it better when we had the controversy going ---------- at least there was mail..."
Besides, I did mention Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel in my last post, to keep things on the fish topic. ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of harry perry
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:57 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit
If we're bored I am sure we can find some fish related topics.
This is bullshit and it's getting old quick. If folks like a controversy they can join a group for that. This group is about fish keeping.
We have 2389 members who joined this group to learn about keeping fish not a few members opinions on the oil spill or politics.
If some folks want more mail, join more groups. I have over 350 messages a day in my mailbox.
Maybe the folks that are bored should try submitting some topics for discussion.
What a concept!!!!!.
Harry
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:36 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit
Don't worry Harry... probably less than 200 of the supposed 2,389 people actually get the emails. If you ever look down the list of Members, the overwhelming majority of people are on "No Mail" or "Special Notices" only. Every once in a while, you'll see someone with "Individual Email" or "Daily Digest" but 80-90% DO NOT get mail from the group. So, if 20% are supposed to be getting mail, that would be nearly 500 people BUT out of those who are supposed to be getting email, 303 are bouncing right now, meaning they aren't getting mail either.... which brings my calculations down to the 200 figure... and there's a possibility that many of those remaining 200 don't even open the majority of the emails or they may not be checking their email at all so they're not getting them either.
Start a poll to see how many people still check in with the group. You could have choices like, Individual Emails, Daily Digest, check group daily, 2-3 times a week, once a week, 2-3 times a month, once a month, etc. and after a month or two, check to see what the numbers are. You could also send out a Special Notice of this poll which would possibly reach a few hundred more members.
It's the nature of any forum or group or company or group of voters or humans in general... 90% of the work is done by 10% or less.... and with income taxes collected and wasted by Congress, it's 90%+ of the income taxes are paid by the top 10% or less of the income earners... and then wasted by less than a fraction of 0.1%, particularly 535 as a percentage of 300 Million... which I think is 0.000000178333% but I could be off by one zero.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of jaiko
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:31 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit
i believe gang that were loosing countless fish species as we speak in the gulf of Mexico so this is a fish topic i think?
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:26 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife]Oil!!! /Hey gang. This is Bullshit
Yes, there are fish deaths and other wildlife deaths but I don't think we're losing either countless fish and certainly not entire species. Is there damage being done, yes, but the Gulf of Mexico is a BIG place and the oil is only affecting a very small part of it right now. The Gulf of Mexico recovered from a similarly bad spill back in 1979 from a rig off of Mexico's coast that flowed unabated for a couple of months and we didn't have the technology for cleaning things up back then like we have today... and most folks do not even remember the 1979 spill because it DID NOT kill the Gulf of Mexico... just like this accident will not kill the Gulf of Mexico.
See my last post, an hour or two ago, about what Obama could have done back in April to seriously mitigate the damages... but he waited nearly two months before doing it. For any fish or other wildlife lost during that period, then he has a large percentage of that blood on his hands. I'll wait for the next couple of winters before I play the "I told you so card!" about the price of heating oil and the people that die because they can't afford it or it's not even available... but I did write my blog article a couple of weeks ago so my prediction is well documented.
The Feds are still putting up roadblocks to our efforts to stop the oil from getting into our marshes and coastlines down here. If we lost even more of our marshes, then it will raise the risk of even more humans dying with any big hurricane that hits our area so that blood will be on Obama's hands as well. I wish Gov. Jindal would have our LA Air National Guard patrol our work areas and fire a warning shot over the bow of the next Coast Guard or Wildlife and Fisheries boat that tries to stop our efforts to secure our coastlines.
Lenny for Governor... or better yet, President!!! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:42 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
So the whole business world reporting their record profits was just a big lie Lenny?
Eric
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:56 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Ummmm... except for the SOCIALIST-liberal-democrat mentality, making profit is a GOOD THING!!! Geez... how did my once great pro-capitalism, freedom loving AMERICA degrade into such a pathetic socialistic, pro-BIG-goverment, anti-capitalism mindset for so many people???
Would you rather they lose money like EVERY government run program that us taxpayers pay for... or maybe all of the companies that Obama and Bush thought were "too big to fail" and us taxpayers had to bail them out? Would that be better for you???
"Record profits" happen due for many reasons... such as the rapidly growing and industrializing countries like China and India, so global companies are selling their product to a MUCH larger customer base... just like Walmart sets new records every year for their sales/profits because they are opening up new stores everywhere. They still operate on very small profit margins except they have increased their customer base to increase their profits... usually while lowering their prices. IF ONLY GOVERNMENT COULD LEARN FROM THAT!!!
The "Profit Margin" is still the same for most oil companies... just a couple of pennies per gallon of gas sold... after the oil company did all that work to get the gas to your local gas station.
You should be complaining about your local, State and Federal government skimming HUGE PROFITS off the top of every gallon of gas sold... which adds up to nearly a DOLLAR per gallon in some States. In Louisiana, it's nearly 60 cents a gallon between Federal, State and local taxes on each gallon of gas. That's over a 30% to 50% tax on every gallon of gas and the government DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to produce that gallon of gas except make it harder and harder for the oil companies to drill for it in the first place. When gas was under $2.00 a gallon at retail, the tax was nearly a 100% tax in some States. Without the taxes, the gas would have only cost a dollar a gallon in those States.
A gallon of gas is less than a gallon of bottled water OR a gallon of milk and considering everything the oil companies have to do to get that gallon of gas to your local gas station, it's actually amazing that they can produce gasoline so inexpensively and efficiently. If only government could do things efficiently and effectively!!!
THANKS BP, EXXONMOBIL, SHELL, ETC. God bless all of you guys and gals for making our lives easier and more productive for such a low price!!!!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:52 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
You didn’t answer my question, oh mighty spouter of corporatist propaganda.
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:58 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
In order for me to answer your question, you first have to read my reply... paragraph three in particular, but the rest of my reply as well. I try not to use big words. ;-)
Just so you know, Fox News has reported that Judge M. Feldman DOES NOT own Transocean or BP stock. He divested himself of the Transocean stock and NEVER owned BP stock, and he owned very little of the Transocean stock anyhow, so his ruling is not tarnished by your rumor. If only politicians were so un-tarnished!!!
Further, the Federal Appeals court denied the guv-ments request to stay Judge Feldman's order so the moratorium is lifted!!!! YEEEE-HAWWWWWWWWW!!!! THAR'S OIL IN THEM THAR WELLS!!!! "...BUBBLING CRUDE, OIL THAT IS, BLACK GOLD, TEXAS TEA!!!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkOGM6gHvao
BTW... thanks for the compliment and promotion to "oh mighty"... but Oh Mighty should probably be capitalized since it refers to God... oh wait... you were calling me "oh mighty", not referring to God, so that's OK if it's not capitalized. LOL
But really..."Corporatist propaganda"??? OMG... you really are a socialist!!! I thought I was just messing with you when I called you that in past replies. But I'd MUCH rather be a "corporatist" than a socialist... so I thank you for that compliment! ;-)
But speaking of fish... I CAN'T believe you buy fish or anything else from pet stores or anywhere else... those are ALL capitalist ventures as well.... and YOU'RE SUPPORTING THEM.. you better not let all your commie-lib friends... or would that be fellow comrades find out! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
Here's my latest political blog which includes much of this new thread and some other good stuff!!! http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/oil.html I do allow comments so feel free to move the debate/discussion over there to keep folks happier over here.
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:56 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Lenny do you like to kick sleeping dogs too? ;)
Amber
------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:14 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
My dogs have always been smart enough to learn not to sleep in the middle of a walkway... it usually only took one kick! Some humans, sadly, aren't so trainable. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of jaiko
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:00 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
how about them dolphins?..lol
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 8:33 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
The Saints beat 'em 46-34... after being down by 21 points... on the way to eventually winning the Superbowl this year!!! WHO DAT!!!
Now I have to add my "SAINTS WIN!!!" signature too! LOL
Oooops... does cheering for my Saints also make me a "corporatist" propagandist? LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
SAINTS WIN!!! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!!! WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS? WHO DAT? WHO DAT? NOT DEM COLTS!!! ;-)
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of William M
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:53 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Oil????????????????????????????
Lenny,
In one of your previous post, you mentioned that this oil spill is not killing the gulf. Does this mean that you are using the water from the gulf to change water in your tanks? Are you going down and swimming in the oily gulf water? Why is BP allowed to burn oil where they know that endangered turtles are going to be killed? Do they have to go to court like anyone else that might kill an endangered animal?
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:08 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Oil????????????????????????????
Nope... I am not using water from the Gulf... it's saltwater (although I may use it for my proposed Gulf Of Mexico Biotope Tank.. lol)... but I do use water from the Mississippi River which IS FAR MORE POLLUTED than the Gulf... thanks to all the upriver States dumping so much crap into the river before it gets down here. Fortunately, it's cleaned up real good before it gets to my place! ;-)
I went swimming in the NOT oily Gulf this past weekend. The entire Gulf and/or coastline is NOT soaked in oil... not withstanding the few video clips that the LSM (Lame Stream Media) plays over and over and over showing that one pathetic looking oil covered pelican and a few other clips showing the worst of the worst. The MAJORITY of the coastline is still mostly unaffected by anything more than some tar balls that wash ashore when the tide comes in. Please note that tar balls wash ashore ALL beaches ALL year long due to NATURAL seepage from ocean bottom oil leaks... "NATURAL" meaning not caused by man.
You should look at a Google Earth image of the oil spill. While it's certainly not a good thing for the areas that the spill is affecting, it's only a fraction of the Gulf of Mexico that is being affected right now and the 1979 spill was still worse... although this spill is catching up fast! My blog article back on June 7th includes a graph of the world's worst oil spills and the BP spill is still WAY down on the chart.
http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/2010/06/graph-says-it-all-bp-oil-spill-compared.html
Here's my entire series of now eight articles about the BP oil spill, which includes the above article.. if the above link breaks, it's included in the below shorter link.
http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP
If Obama would have allowed foreign help starting back on April 25th... instead of waiting until June 14th... and if he would have IMMEDIATELY mobilized the 2,000+ skimmers that are based in America, instead of the ONLY 46 or so that were in the Gulf area already, there would be FAR LESS oil in the water and possibly NONE coming on shore since 2,000+ skimmers would have been sucking it up way out in the middle of the Gulf instead of us having to just watch it get closer and closer to our shorelines as the days and weeks went by. All of this is also documented in my more recent articles.
The 20 BILLION DOLLAR fund that BP has set up does cover the cost of cleaning up the entire spill, cleaning up any oil covered animals and also covers paying fines for each animal that dies as a result of the spill.
They are allowed to burn the oil right now because that is what the Federal Government approved. Blame Congress for that. I still scratch my head as to why they are burning it instead of loading it all into an oil tanker to be processed but one of my more recent blog articles have information as to why they are doing it that way. Something about the oily water being skimmed up is 80-90% water and has already been treated with the chemical dispersants so it's not easily refined and more easily burned. Once again, blame Congress who writes all of the laws that govern the writing of all of the rules and regulations. Congress has been controlled by the Democratic Party since 2006... but I guess they'll try to blame Bush also instead of accepting responsibility for their actions and inactions.
Please reply with any comments on my non-fish blog, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/, since some members of this group do not like talking about the oil spill. Just click the "Comments" link at the bottom of each article and bash me or applaud me all you want. I'm a big boy and I take it all in stride! ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:52 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
You are just plainly ignorant… especially if you would rather be called a corporatist. But I think that Mussolini and Hitler would be proud to have you amongst their ranks as fellow corporatists.
Oh yes, Fox, that bastion of truth and honesty…right…
In 2008 Feldman had financial holdings with Transocean, the company that owned the faulty oil rig. [6]
BlackRock ($12000- $36000); Ocean Energy ($1000 – $2500); NGP Capital Resources ($1000 – $2500); Quicksilver Resources ($5000 – $15000); Hercules Offshore ($6000 – $17500); Provident Energy; Peabody Energy; PenGrowth Energy; RPC Inc; Atlas Energy Resources; Parker Drilling; TXCO Resources; EV Energy Partners; Rowan Companies; BPZ Resources; El Paso Corp; KBR Inc; Chesapeake Energy and ATP Oil & Gas. [7]
For the Lousiana Judgeapedia project judgepedia.org/index.php/Martin_Feldman
No ties to the oil industry there…
Eric
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:44 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
No, I'm not ignorant... I'm just NOT a socialist.
Typical lib... play the race card or the Hitler card when you can't win on the facts.
Neither Hitler nor Mussolini believed in capitalism.
"The Nazis accused communism and capitalism of being associated with Jewish influences and interests.[16] They declared support for a nationalist form of socialism that was to provide for... : economic security, social welfare programs for workers, a just wage, honour for workers' importance to the nation, and protection from capitalist exploitation.[17]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
That sounds MUCH MORE like the Democratic-liberal-socialist party than the Republican party... yet my Jewish friends still vote mostly for the Democrats but they can never explain to my why? Go figure!
Fox News is FAR MORE "Fair and Balanced" than any other news network. All of the other LSM networks are so far left-leaning, they have to lean their cameras so their anchors appear to be sitting up straight. LOL
Once again... you're not reading my replied.
Judge Feldman divested (that means sold) his TransOcean stock since that 2008 report. As far as his other energy related holdings... none of them amount to very much money. If you have a retirement plan, you probably have as much of a percentage of your investments in energy companies also. Even if you are going to rely on only Social Security, much of the money that comes into Congress is energy related taxes and fees.
Considering Obama got around A MILLION DOLLARS from BP and many more millions from all of the other energy companies, he's far more culpable and in bed with big energy than Judge Feldman... hmmmmm.. I wonder if that is why the Obama administration gave that BP rig a big thumbs up on all their permits and inspections just two weeks prior to the explosion???
As far as your last comment about "no ties to the oil industry", there is NOBODY in America or probably the world without any ties to the oil industry... maybe some jungle tribes who have never had contact with the outside world... but that's about it.
Have you ever owned or driven a car? Oil industry related!
Have you ever owned or ridden a bike? Oil industry related!
Have you ever worn polyester clothing? Oil industry related!
Are you using a computer and the internet that relies on various plastics and polymers for them to work? Oil industry related.
Do you use energy to heat or cool your apartment? Oil industry related!
OMG.... you better throw everything you own away and go move in with one of them aforementioned jungle tribes. I hear there is good fish collecting down in the Amazon so you won't have to support them capitalist pet stores either! LOL
Sheesh... I might have to go out and buy Glenn Beck's book, "Arguing With Idiots" http://www.glennbeck.com/bookczar/ ... I'm sure he must have a chapter that covers this discussion.
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:49 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
Lenny I don't even read most of your replies, especially ones not about FISH :P I've asked twice for this argument to stop and it hasn't yet. I'm about to start denying replies on purpose instead of letting someone else approve them so that you can reply again and continue the arguments.
They're getting old.
Amber
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Oil????????????????????????????
I keep LMAO down here, because you and some of the other mods are the biggest complainers about this thread.... yet they keep on approving the posts. I only reply to the ones that are allowed by someone else in the first place. I didn't start the thread but as long as the mods are allowing one side to post, then they have to allow the other side an appropriate response.
I've looked at the moderator's logs on the group's website and several different mods have been approving the posts. Every time one is approved, I check to see who approved it. Of course, not all members are moderated so some of their replies just come through without moderation.
I just do my part and post an appropriate and factual reply... since everyone else is too apathetic to do so... and probably because I know more about the truth about the BP spill than anyone else in the group... at least those that are active.
Of course, to answer your last sentence, I think people's apathy is "getting old". I'd MUCH RATHER have an involved citizenship than a bunch of people who cover their ears and chant LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA whenever politics or religion comes up in the conversation. They're the two things that affect EVERYBODY'S lives the most and yet people want to play ostrich whenever the subject comes up. ;-)
After sending this reply, I'll put myself back on moderation and let you all allow whatever you want to allow... which will probably just be one sided replies from those not on moderation from now on, since that would seem to make some of you happy... then everyone can go back to covering their ears and eyes and chanting LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!
Lenny Vasbinder
THINGS THEN WENT OFF-LIST BETWEEN ME AND SOME OF THE MODERATORS:
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife-owner@
On Behalf Of Amber Berglund
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 6:28 PM
To: 'AquaticLife Moderator'
Subject: Political/religious discussions.
Okay I know I haven't been a moderator for very long, but I have a request that we create and enforce a new rule for the group; No religious/political discussions. We should consider this much similar to the rules you have at a work place, there's a reason there are no political or religious discussions; because people do not agree, and there are too many opinions to be expressed. Not to mention that people get easily upset and rude when they're talking about their beliefs.
Thanks for listening,
Amber
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:50 PM
To: 'arberglund@gmail.com'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.
(covers eyes and ears with hands so I do not see or hear this offensive email and then get all "upset and rude" if I do see or hear it... why didn't I just delete the email???? God, I just don't know!!!)
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(while eyes and ears are covered, I mutter a reply anyhow)
I CAN'T HEAR OR SEE THIS EMAIL BECAUSE IT HAS THE TOPIC OF "POLITICAL/RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS" AND I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE MY EYES AND EARS ARE COVERED SO I'M TYPING AND REPLYING IN A LOUDER VOICE SINCE I CAN'T HEAR MYSELF EITHER.
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(uncovers eyes and ears for a moment to see if email went away... it didn't... so I reply)
And what about when people "do not agree" about something related to fish keeping... does that mean we can't discuss that either so as not to offend anyone??? I've seen folks get just as offended when I explain they cannot keep a goldfish in a bowl when the PetsMart employee told them they could have five goldfish in the same bowl.
(covers eyes and ears again since I don't want to hear an answer that I "do not agree" with)
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(uncovers eyes and ears again just for a moment to see if email went away... it didn't once again... so I reply again)
Political correctness, in America, run amuck!!!
(covers eyes and ears again so I do not see or hear anything that I "do not agree" with being said or typed by anyone else)
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(uncovers eyes and ears again to see if email went away yet... OH GOD!!!... it's still here and now, even worse,...)
Fox News Channel with Bill O'Reilly just came on and he is discussing Obama's failures and pitiful poll numbers due to his pathetic and pitiful response, in part, to the oil spill, immigration, the Afghanistan war, the pathetically high deficits for the past two years and outrageously high national debt, among other things.
(covers eyes and ears again so I can't see or hear the email or my TV now)
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA....
(I think I feel a warm and fuzzy, blissful feeling coming over me now... maybe even "a tingle running up my leg"... since you know the old saying... "Ignorance Is Bliss!")
LMAO... I know this won't get posted to the group but at least I can add it to both of my blogs and people can choose to read it or not (hit the X or Delete key)... and even post un-moderated comments on MY blogs.... some that I may not even agree with!!!... OMG, the outrage!!!!
And what about when discussing how the various species came to be, since that subject comes up often? Are we only allowed to discuss Darwin's "theory of evolution" and use terms like Mother Nature since we do not want to offend anyone by saying "intelligent design" or "God works in mysterious ways"... and should I NOT capitalize the M and N in Mother Nature since when typing Mother Nature with a capital M and N, I actually meant God??? OMG, I'm so confused now!!!
OMG... is it OK to type OMG since the G stands for God??? Or is it OK since I only used the first letter? Confusion is running amuck now!!!
SMAO!!! Smiling, not laughing, My Ass Off!!!... does anyone really laugh out loud EVERY TIME they type LOL? I guess the
I think I'll have to nominate myself for a Pulitzer Prize for this reply... it may well be my best and most satirical reply to an email... EVER!
Heck, now I might even go into a crowded theater and scream FIIIIIIIRRRRRREEEEEEEE!!!!!.... ooops... now I've crossed the freedom of speech line... but everything up to that point was all OK in my book... although the PC Police may not have agreed.
Lenny Vasbinder
----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Amber Berglund
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 8:46 PM
To: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny; 'AquaticLife Moderator'
Subject: Re: Political/religious discussions.
No Lenny the point is that we're all adults, and if people can't learn to let arguments drop and act like an adult, then those of us in charge need to "be the better man/woman" and help enforce rules so that hopefully we can keep arguments to a minimum.
politics and religious beliefs are very controversial topics anywhere, and the fact that you had to keep having the last word on the argument shows that you need to learn how to drop it and let everything go back to a more civil tone. You actually encouraged foul language from other members that were arguing with you when you're supposed to be a moderator yourself and keep people in line so to speak.
It's fine to have off topic posts that people want to discuss, but it's another thing encouraging an argument and rude behavior from other members, and continuing to do so when more than just a few people request that the topic be ended.
I think you're a great fountain of information Lenny, but sometimes you really like to pick controversial topics and don't know when to drop them.
Amber
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:44 PM
To: 'arberglund@; 'AquaticLife-owner@'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.
I agree that most of us are adults and therefore we should be able to have an open and honest discussion and debate about anything, even off-topic things and folks could just put OT- in front of the subject. You call it an argument, I call it a discussion and debate.
I have been waiting for the "you had to keep having the last word" card to get played against ME... and nobody else... although I expected it MUCH sooner. ;-) I've heard that MANY times over the past 20+ years but IMO, that's such a pathetic thing that some people say in any discussion or debate... primarily when they don't agree with someone... or when they're losing the debate badly... it's analogous to if you can't win the game, take your ball and go home, IMO.
Someone is always going to get the "last word" eventually... or not... so that "last word" card should/could be applied to EVERYONE who replied in the thread... or even to those that started the threads (cough, cough), since the threads could have gotten shut down after their "last word" instead of MY or someone else's "last word"... and does this mean that only YOUR "last word" is an acceptable "last word" since you were the last to reply to the last thread??? Or was it someone else's "last word" as the "last word" in the threads? When Bill started the new "Oil???????" thread, if nobody replied, then would you play the "last word" card against him? I hope you can see the lunacy or hypocrisy of someone playing the "last word" card... do they think that only they should have the "last word"? Now, if folks wanted to put a message count or time limit on debates/discussions and the buzzer rings, then that would be a more "fair" way of determining the "last word" but for someone else to try and get in the "last word" by playing the "you always have to have the last word" card, then they are as guilty of the "last word" card as the person they are playing it against... I think that's called hypocrisy.
Don't look to me to "keep people in line" when it comes to free speech. I'm a bastion of free speechism so I'm NEVER going to shut someone up... especially when it's on such an important topic as politics and religion... the two things that affect our lives (literally) the most. I've stated this many, many, many times over the years when ever politics and religion comes up... and it always will... regardless of how many people do the LA-LA-LA-LA-LA thing. Millions of people have DIED for our rights to have our politics, religion and free speech and while I might piss on Obama's and many other modern politician's graves... both democrat and republican and especially socialist, fascist and communist, I'll never piss on the grave of someone that stood up and DIED for our rights.... namely the founding fathers and early leaders of America and our members of the military... well, maybe I would piss on John Kerry's grave. LOL Someone much smarter than me once said, "While I may not agree with what you say, I'll fight to the death for your right to say it!" or one of the many other morphs of the original saying.... just like I'm replying to your emails instead of just ignoring them or deleting them... as I believe that you have a right to say what you say... but conversely, SO DO I!!!
I purposely didn't moderate (approve or deny) any of the posts concerning the two political threads and only replied to posts that some other moderator approved, as I knew I would be involved in the discussion and debate and didn't want to be accused of shutting someone up. At any point, any one of the 10+ moderators could have put everyone on moderation, including fellow moderators, just as I put myself on moderation, but NOBODY did so I continued to reply to each and every replies or questions directed towards me.
Now, as far as the "foul language", that is something that could/should be moderated and it's easy enough for any moderator to open a pending message, prior to it being approved, and remove or change any foul language. I personally didn't use any "foul language", although I did use some "fowl language"
As far as people that do not want to participate... which unfortunately is a LARGE percentage of apathetic Americans, just like at the polls, they can refuse to show up... or in email terms, they can simply hit the delete key if they see a subject line they are not interested in. That's what I do... it's so simple and it works 100% of the time! Although I show up at the polls 100% of the time since I first registered to vote when I was 18 years old.
These people that complain and leave the group or threaten to leave the group, because they somehow can't hit the delete key, are simply people that do not believe in free speech or do not agree with what one or another party may be saying so they want to shut everyone up by their pathetic threats to leave. I say... take your ball and leave if you're that kind of person... I'll just get another ball and start the game up again after you're gone.
Fortunately, based on the number of off-list emails that I got, there are FAR MORE people that agreed with my positions and were glad I had the balls to say them. Unfortunately, those same folks were too afraid of the PC Police to speak up on-list... but I understand when some people are afraid after being beat into submission by the leftist PC Police.
I might have to morph another old saying... instead of "The only way they'll take my guns, is to pry them from my cold dead fingers!", I'll change it to "The only way they'll take my keyboard, is to pry it from my cold dead fingers!" LOL
NOW... all this said, in the past few days, I've been looking at all the other BIG Yahoo Groups related to fish keeping and if you look at the message count chart on the home page of these many other groups, messages are WAY DOWN in almost every group in the past two years. Only one group stayed pretty consistent and I was going to look at their messages since they were the only group that was consistent, but they have their messages shut down, except for members, so I can't peek at their subject lines until I have time to do so, now that I've been approved for the group. I'll report back later on that.
I haven't gone through and read the thousands of threads for the past two years in all the other open message groups, but I have a theory that the message count is down for one or both of the following theoretical reasons:
1) The economy, unemployment, deficit, national debt, etc., are SO BAD under the last year of Bush and even worse under Obama that people are hoarding their money and are not buying fish so fish talk is down in general. I've also noticed SEVERAL other LONG-TIME online forums that have just shut down and gone away... sites like PlantGeek's, Aquatic-Hobbyist, etc. simply have closed their doors, probably due to lack of participation in the past two years. I'm sure there are many, many others that I do not know about.
My other theoretical reason is:
2) Politics has come up far more often with Obama's socialist, big-government, tax-and-spend, deficit spending the national debt by record levels, Obamacare, etc... so these other groups shut other freedom-of-speech-people up often enough that they just left the groups or no longer participate.... or the relatively few people that don't believe in freedom of speech left the groups OR because one or two people left, the moderators got paranoid and became mini-dictators and everyone else kind of shut up too.... hmmmm.. now that theory sounds familiar! ;-)
As you see, I do neither! ;-) I try to practice what I preach... whether it be fish keeping related or far more important topics like politics and religion.
Here are several other group's home pages where you can see the message count charts to verify what I've theorized above.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SaltWaterAquariums/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reefcity/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub/ (the only relatively consistent message count group)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Saltwater_Fish_and_Reef_Aquariums/
And last but not least, http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/
Those are the three biggest FW and SW yahoo groups, in no particular order, and all but one are suffering MAJOR decreases in message count in the past two years and even the TropicalFishClub, which by the way is the #1 group as far as total members, with 2,637 (of course they could have 80-90% spam-bot members harvesting email addresses as well), but they haven't had as many messages as AquaticLife each month, in the past... so I'm not sure what Aaron bases the "#1" designation on the AquaticLife home page to know if he means membership count or message count or if it's like a Nobel Pease Prize (such as Obama's, AlGore's and Jimmy Carter's... when Reagan did FAR MORE to promote and preserve world peace than those three combined and probably more than any other on the list and yet, he never got one... because it's all based on liberal-socialist politics, not on real peace - http://nobelprizes.com/nobel/peace/) or many of the Pulitzer Prizes that are based on made up science or facts ... or if the "#1" designation is like when I give myself a "Lenny Award" for outstanding whatever. LOL
Of course, maybe Aaron designated AquaticLife as #1 because I'm a member! Now that would be worthy of a "Lenny Award"!!!! Let me know Aaron, so I can get that right out to you! LOL
AquaticLife has lost FAR MORE members due to the overall LARGE number of posts... often topping more than 1,000 a month, than due to the political or religious threads. As I reported in an earlier post, at least 80% of people are on no-mail or special notices only and of the remaining 500 members who are supposed to be getting emails, over 300 are bouncing... primarily due to their email boxes being filled up so new emails are returned to sender. In between the two GREAT DEBATE threads, I offered a solution to at least try and harvest and/or save all of the saltwater members who have come and gone over the years but you and I think Harry were the only other moderators to reply so until Aaron replies with a yea or nay, I've put that on the back burner.
BTW... I welcome your reply since I certainly wouldn't want to be the "last word". ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:51 PM
To: 'arberglund@gmail.com'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Political/religious discussions.
Ohhh.. I meant to add to that utterly ridiculous Nobel Peace Prize list that included Obama, AlGore and Carter... they gave a Nobel Peace Price to: "1990 - MIKHAIL SERGEYEVICH GORBACHEV , President of the USSR, helped to bring the Cold War to an end." which further illustrates the lunacy and hypocrisy and socialist-liberal mindset of that group since THE ONLY REASON Gorbachev helped bring the Cold War to an end was DUE TO PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN AND AMERICA'S MILITARY STRENGTH... do you remember America's Star Wars Missile Defense Program and the "Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" speech or were you too young?
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of harry perry
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 9:02 PM
To: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Lenny, this post is a crock of shit.
In reference to Lenny's reply starting with: "I keep LMAO down here, because you and some of the other mods are the biggest complainers about this thread.... yet they keep on approving the posts. I only reply to the ones that are allowed by someone else in the first place. I didn't start the thread but as long as the mods are allowing one side to post, then they have to allow the other side an appropriate response...."
Harry replied:
All you did was make an ass out of all the moderators.
I for one have no problem discussing politics, religion or anything else. Of course if we discuss this privately you won't have an audience.
It doesn't belong in a fish keeping group. This is not a forum for involved citizenship.
Something you just don't seem to get, this group isn't about you and your ideas.
It's a team effort. It's goal is fish keeping not what Lenny thinks we should be talking about.
If we want to stick our fingers in our ears or anywhere else it's none of your f------ business.
We joined this group because we have something in common we love fish.
We didn't join the Lenny Admiration Society.
Most of us use our hobbies and interests to maintain our sanity. So when we tune in here what do we get?. More of the same shit.
I hope we can procede as a team towards the same goal. FISH KEEPING.
Harry
-----------
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:10 PM
To: 'harry perry'; 'AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: Lenny, this post is a crock of shit.
I applaud your freedom of speech but I think you violated Amber's "foul language" rule... and make sure you wash that finger! ;-)
Your rant's and outrage should really be against those who started the threads and/or the moderators who approved the first message and then continued to approve the follow-up replies... for which I did neither.
And as far as whether it is my business if you want to cover your ears and ignore things... actually that is my business since ignorant American's are the ones that keep voting in the stupid-assed politicians that are doing the stupid-assed things to America (ooops... I just violated Amber's rule too).
Once again, I only replied to posts/threads that were first approved by a moderator or by un-moderated members, so if you feel I made an ass out of the other moderators, for those that approved the messages, if the shoe fits, wear it... of course, personally I'm VERY proud of those moderators for having a pair and being willing to approve the messages... but once again, your complaints and anger are aimed at the wrong person. What's the old saying, "Don't kill the messenger!"
I like that "Lenny Admiration Society" though... maybe I'll start up a Yahoo Group by that name... of course, I'll probably be the only member. ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
-----------
Also click the BP or BP OIL SPILL "label" links on the left side to read all of my other related articles about the BP spill.
You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.
Thursday, June 24, 2010
"How the Government Slowed Down the Gulf Cleanup" by Ernest Istook
While I rarely copy/paste someone else's material in it's entirety, I think EVERYONE should read this ENTIRE article so I'm having to break my rule today! Please either read the article below or click on this link to read it on NewsMax... and while at NewsMax, subscribe for their FREE News Alerts near the top right corner.
This is just further PROOF that OBAMA is using Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel's Chicago-style politics of "Never let a disaster go to waste!" in furthering Obama's liberal-socialist agenda and the left's anti-Oil mindset... all so Obama can further tax-and-spend us into bankruptcy while persuing unproven "green energy" concepts.
http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/Gulf-oil-BP-cleanup/2010/06/22/id/362748?s=al&promo_code=A236-1
How the Government Slowed Down the Gulf Cleanup
Tuesday, 22 Jun 2010 03:31 PM
by: Ernest Istook
Our own government has quietly admitted that America needs foreign help to handle the oil spill — almost two months after pushing that help away.
Far more oil could have been intercepted before it fouled the Gulf Coast. So why hasn’t our government apologized?
By refusing foreign assistance, we banned both the latest technology and cleanup vessels that far exceed the capacity of America’s oil spill response vessels (OSRVs). We rejected ships with 10 times the capability of the vessels we used instead.
In a quiet announcement on June 18, the Federal On-Scene Coordinator (FOSC) finally agreed that we need help, describing a conclusion reached two days before:
“. . . the FOSC, in coordination with other federal agencies, determined on June 16, 2010, pursuant to 46 U.S.C. §55113, that there are an insufficient number of specialized oil skimming vessels in the U.S. to keep pace with the unprecedented levels of oil discharges in the Gulf of Mexico. Based upon this determination, foreign specialized skimming vessels may be deployed to response operations.”
Technically, the Jones Act remains unwaived and continues to restrict use of foreign vessels other than OSRV’s. Officials invoked only a limited exemption that was put into law after Hurricane Katrina.
By their delay, our bureaucracy and government regulation have made a horrible situation even worse. There were two weeks between the April 20 explosion on the Deepwater Horizon and the time when the first oil made landfall. And it was almost six additional weeks before specialized equipment from overseas was approved by our government for limited use.
The Dutch formally offered help on April 25. Not until June 14 did the U.S. State Department announce that some foreign help would be welcomed from the 17 nations who had been trying to assist.
We violated a basic rule of oil spills: “The key to avoiding catastrophic damage and extreme liability is a fast response.”
So what’s different about the foreign equipment that at long last is being deployed? Capacity, for one. They can do far more and do it more quickly.
To protect the North Sea — a major petroleum-producing area — Europe created cooperatives such as Norway’s Norwegian Clean Seas Association for Operating Companies (NOFO), assembling resources that far surpass America’s.
The largest American OSRV I’ve found has only a 4,000-barrel capacity. Compare that to Norway’s new cleanup standards, which state, “An active effort must always be made to achieve the largest possible tank capacity. Under no circumstances must the tank capacity for storage of recovered oil be less than 1,500 m³.” 1,500 cubic meters is 9,400 barrels. None of our U.S. oil recovery vessels appear to come even close to this standard.
The European Union maintains a multi-faceted inventory of OSRVs. The Netherlands alone lists 11 ships that exceed this 9,400-barrel capacity, including vessels like the Geopotes 14 that reportedly can pick up and contain 47,000 barrels at a time. That’s 10 times larger than any U.S. ship we’ve been using.
Collecting more oil in each run enables more time spent collecting oil and less time carrying oil back to a storage facility.
There’s another problem with how U.S. regulations are slowing down the cleanup. The Dutch are now providing skimmers that can be attached to American vessels. But because most of what’s skimmed is unavoidably water, not oil, they complain that America’s EPA standards won’t let them put back the water. Thus their tanks fill up with a mixture that is mostly water.
That mix is a serious problem. The Incident Commander, Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, told the media on June 11, “We have skimmed, to date, about 18 million gallons of oily water — the oil has to be decanted from that [and] our yield is usually somewhere around 10 percent or 15 percent on that.”
That means 85 percent to 90 percent of what is collected is water, not oil. If complaints are correct, then unless vessels can separate these at sea and discharge the water, most of what they haul back to a storage facility is water. That means six or seven trips to carry one full load of skimmed oil. Complaints are that our EPA says discharged water from the skimming cannot exceed 15 ppm (parts per million) of oil.
Radio Netherlands reported:
“The Americans don’t have spill response vessels with skimmers because their environment regulations do not allow it. With the Dutch method, seawater is sucked up with the oil by the skimmer. The oil is stored in the tanker and the superfluous water is pumped overboard. But the water does contain some oil residue, and that is too much according to U.S. environment regulations.
“Wierd Koops [head of the Dutch consortium, Spill Response Group Holland] thinks the U.S. approach is nonsense, because otherwise you would have to store the surplus seawater in the tanks as well.
“[Says Koops], “We say no, you have to get as much oil as possible into the storage tanks and as little water as possible. So we pump the water, which contains drops of oil, back overboard.”
“U.S. regulations are contradictory, Mr. Koops stresses. Pumping water back into the sea with oil residue is not allowed.”
He is not alone in criticizing America’s restrictions on the cleanup efforts. Several Democrats in Congress have joined the calls to get our bureaucracy out of the way.
Rep. Corinne Brown, D-Fla., said at a hearing, "We are in emergency mode; we need skimmers . . . There are small boats, I guess, but we need the big ones. I understand they are available in other countries."
We indeed need the big cleanup ships that America must get from overseas. Who knows how many livelihoods — and how much of the environment — would have been spared if our government had not drug its bureaucratic feet and invited them two months ago?
BP has apologized. And still must be held accountable. But where’s the apology from our government — and the accountability?
Ernest Istook served 14 years as a U.S. congressman and is now a distinguished fellow at The Heritage Foundation.
----------
Also, watch this video!!!
-----------
You can read more of my articles about the BP Oil Spill at my other blog, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP%20Oil%20Spill
You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.
This is just further PROOF that OBAMA is using Rahm "Dead Fish" Emanuel's Chicago-style politics of "Never let a disaster go to waste!" in furthering Obama's liberal-socialist agenda and the left's anti-Oil mindset... all so Obama can further tax-and-spend us into bankruptcy while persuing unproven "green energy" concepts.
http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/Gulf-oil-BP-cleanup/2010/06/22/id/362748?s=al&promo_code=A236-1
How the Government Slowed Down the Gulf Cleanup
Tuesday, 22 Jun 2010 03:31 PM
by: Ernest Istook
Our own government has quietly admitted that America needs foreign help to handle the oil spill — almost two months after pushing that help away.
Far more oil could have been intercepted before it fouled the Gulf Coast. So why hasn’t our government apologized?
By refusing foreign assistance, we banned both the latest technology and cleanup vessels that far exceed the capacity of America’s oil spill response vessels (OSRVs). We rejected ships with 10 times the capability of the vessels we used instead.
In a quiet announcement on June 18, the Federal On-Scene Coordinator (FOSC) finally agreed that we need help, describing a conclusion reached two days before:
“. . . the FOSC, in coordination with other federal agencies, determined on June 16, 2010, pursuant to 46 U.S.C. §55113, that there are an insufficient number of specialized oil skimming vessels in the U.S. to keep pace with the unprecedented levels of oil discharges in the Gulf of Mexico. Based upon this determination, foreign specialized skimming vessels may be deployed to response operations.”
Technically, the Jones Act remains unwaived and continues to restrict use of foreign vessels other than OSRV’s. Officials invoked only a limited exemption that was put into law after Hurricane Katrina.
By their delay, our bureaucracy and government regulation have made a horrible situation even worse. There were two weeks between the April 20 explosion on the Deepwater Horizon and the time when the first oil made landfall. And it was almost six additional weeks before specialized equipment from overseas was approved by our government for limited use.
The Dutch formally offered help on April 25. Not until June 14 did the U.S. State Department announce that some foreign help would be welcomed from the 17 nations who had been trying to assist.
We violated a basic rule of oil spills: “The key to avoiding catastrophic damage and extreme liability is a fast response.”
So what’s different about the foreign equipment that at long last is being deployed? Capacity, for one. They can do far more and do it more quickly.
To protect the North Sea — a major petroleum-producing area — Europe created cooperatives such as Norway’s Norwegian Clean Seas Association for Operating Companies (NOFO), assembling resources that far surpass America’s.
The largest American OSRV I’ve found has only a 4,000-barrel capacity. Compare that to Norway’s new cleanup standards, which state, “An active effort must always be made to achieve the largest possible tank capacity. Under no circumstances must the tank capacity for storage of recovered oil be less than 1,500 m³.” 1,500 cubic meters is 9,400 barrels. None of our U.S. oil recovery vessels appear to come even close to this standard.
The European Union maintains a multi-faceted inventory of OSRVs. The Netherlands alone lists 11 ships that exceed this 9,400-barrel capacity, including vessels like the Geopotes 14 that reportedly can pick up and contain 47,000 barrels at a time. That’s 10 times larger than any U.S. ship we’ve been using.
Collecting more oil in each run enables more time spent collecting oil and less time carrying oil back to a storage facility.
There’s another problem with how U.S. regulations are slowing down the cleanup. The Dutch are now providing skimmers that can be attached to American vessels. But because most of what’s skimmed is unavoidably water, not oil, they complain that America’s EPA standards won’t let them put back the water. Thus their tanks fill up with a mixture that is mostly water.
That mix is a serious problem. The Incident Commander, Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, told the media on June 11, “We have skimmed, to date, about 18 million gallons of oily water — the oil has to be decanted from that [and] our yield is usually somewhere around 10 percent or 15 percent on that.”
That means 85 percent to 90 percent of what is collected is water, not oil. If complaints are correct, then unless vessels can separate these at sea and discharge the water, most of what they haul back to a storage facility is water. That means six or seven trips to carry one full load of skimmed oil. Complaints are that our EPA says discharged water from the skimming cannot exceed 15 ppm (parts per million) of oil.
Radio Netherlands reported:
“The Americans don’t have spill response vessels with skimmers because their environment regulations do not allow it. With the Dutch method, seawater is sucked up with the oil by the skimmer. The oil is stored in the tanker and the superfluous water is pumped overboard. But the water does contain some oil residue, and that is too much according to U.S. environment regulations.
“Wierd Koops [head of the Dutch consortium, Spill Response Group Holland] thinks the U.S. approach is nonsense, because otherwise you would have to store the surplus seawater in the tanks as well.
“[Says Koops], “We say no, you have to get as much oil as possible into the storage tanks and as little water as possible. So we pump the water, which contains drops of oil, back overboard.”
“U.S. regulations are contradictory, Mr. Koops stresses. Pumping water back into the sea with oil residue is not allowed.”
He is not alone in criticizing America’s restrictions on the cleanup efforts. Several Democrats in Congress have joined the calls to get our bureaucracy out of the way.
Rep. Corinne Brown, D-Fla., said at a hearing, "We are in emergency mode; we need skimmers . . . There are small boats, I guess, but we need the big ones. I understand they are available in other countries."
We indeed need the big cleanup ships that America must get from overseas. Who knows how many livelihoods — and how much of the environment — would have been spared if our government had not drug its bureaucratic feet and invited them two months ago?
BP has apologized. And still must be held accountable. But where’s the apology from our government — and the accountability?
Ernest Istook served 14 years as a U.S. congressman and is now a distinguished fellow at The Heritage Foundation.
----------
Also, watch this video!!!
-----------
You can read more of my articles about the BP Oil Spill at my other blog, http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP%20Oil%20Spill
You can click on the Comments link below to open the Comments section to leave your comments.
Thursday, June 17, 2010
My First Online Debate About So-Called Green Energy... All Because I Joked About Setting Up A "Gulf Of Mexico Biotope Aquarium"
Here's how it started... in the AquaticLife Yahoo Group. I'll also be cross-posting this blog on my Rants & Raves Blog at http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber B
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:47 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Is it just me or is the group really quiet lately? I haven't gotten any posts and I even sent one myself ;) lol.
Amber
And my first reply that led to this discussion and debate...
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:54 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Have you checked your deodorant and mouthwash lately?
Just kidddddiiinnnnggggg!!! LOL
If you look at the group's home page http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/, down near the bottom where there is the Message History table, you'll see that messages always slow down in May, June, July, August. I think this is due to summer time and more kids being home and taking up parents time and computer time, as well as vacations, etc. Granted, messages are much slower this year than in past years. It could be related to the global economy and maybe not as many folks getting into the hobby right now.
I'm thinking about setting up a new low cost salt water tank right now... a Gulf Of Mexico biotope.... some dead fish, turtles and birds floating on top of some crude oil in a salt water tank. At least it's low maintenance! ;-) LOL
Or, after all that, maybe it is your deodorant and mouthwash! LOL
Oh yeah... fish!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber B
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:22 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Gosh that tanks gonna smell to high heaven Lenny ;) lol.
I think I remembered to wear deodorant... hey wait you guys can't smell me through email ;) LOL
Amber
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:41 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I forgot to mention that I'm going to have a little burning oil well on the surface of my "Gulf Of Mexico biotope tank" so the smoke should mask the smell of the dead critters. LOL
While I joke about this... and since I live down here I can joke about it... I actually believe the LSM (Lame Stream Media) is paying far too much attention to the relatively few oil covered birds, turtles, marshes and beaches and NOT nearly enough attention to the 11 workers who died in the accident and the hundreds, even thousands of Americans who will DIE HORRIBLE DEATHS in the coming months and years due to "necessarily skyrocket(ing)" crude oil prices... when they can't afford to heat their homes in the winter and cool their homes in the summer. IT'S TIME NOW, MORE THAN EVER, TO DRILL BABY, DRILL (Oil and Gas wells); BUILD BABY, BUILD (Nuclear Plants); MINE BABY, MINE (Coal) and anything else that is proven to produce low cost energy instead of sending TRILLIONS of more American dollars to foreign countries.
Oops.. sorry for the semi-political rant but it does have to do with the environment too! I do most of my political rants on my other blog... http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/ and my four articles about my thoughts on the BP Oil Spill are here... http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP%20Oil%20Spill
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
And NOW, the JUICY debate and discussion starts...
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:03 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Well.drill, baby, drill, without safety first is what got us into this (Thanks Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney). Do you realize that this has nothing to do with the cost of crude prices as this rig was still years out from actual production. Most of our domestically produces oil is actually exported, so no matter how much you chant drill, baby, drill, it's not going to help us get off foreign oil. What we need to do is work on alternative energy like ethanol and biodiesel from environmentally and renewable sources (can you say hemp and switch grass as well as from agro waste?). The only thing domestic drilling does is make the oil companies richer and the planet less safe.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:55 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And while America sits on our hands, contemplating "green energy" concepts...
China is building 500 coal powered electric plants over the next ten years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6769743.stm (2007) - "China is now building about two power stations every week, the top climate change official at the UK Foreign Office, John Ashton, has said."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/world/asia/11coal.html (2009) - "TIANJIN, China — China’s frenetic construction of coal-fired power plants has raised worries around the world about the effect on climate change. China now uses more coal than the United States, Europe and Japan combined, making it the world’s largest emitter of gases that are warming the planet."
http://windfarms.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/china-building-500-coal-plants/ (2009) - "At the two minute mark of the video below, from Australia, we learn that China is building 500 coal plants over the next ten years — One new power plant every four days.
China is exempt from KYOTO
Think About it!
In Ontario, Canada, the govt. is filling rural Ont. with wind turbines under the guise of saving the environment and closing our four coal plants. (wind has never been responsible for the closure of any fossil fuel plant) We are going to close four coal plants at the same time China builds one every four days.
Think About it!
In the USA, Obama said he will bankrupt the coal plants.
Think About it.
The Scam is Huge"
France gets 77% of their electricity from nuclear power plants. America gets less than 20%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_by_country
Unless or until ALL countries are going to go green and green energy is affordable... right now it is subsidized by huge margins by government dollars... meaning taxpayer dollars... so even the folks who think they are buying this so-called lower-priced-due-to-subsidies green energy, the energy still costs a LOT more and other people are paying for it... one day, when we finally start to balance our federal budget and have to start paying off the ridiculous national debt.... but back to the point, unless or until ALL countries are going to go green, it's STUPID for America to KILL AMERICAN'S due to high energy prices while other countries are burning fossil fuels at rates America hasn't ever come close to.
As far as your comment about "most" domestic oil being exported, that is simply NOT TRUE that "most" oil is exported, it's less than 15% (see *)... and further, it doesn't matter if it was "most" since crude oil prices are based on global supply and demand pricing. What matters is increasing the supply considerably which will drive down the prices to the consumers... and that will also punish the oil companies that you feel are making too much money... not withstanding that oil companies make just a few pennies a gallon after they find the oil, drill for the oil, transport the oil, refine the oil and then deliver the oil and gas to consumers... and the government is taking TEN TO TWENTY TIMES MORE in taxes/fees for doing nothing. Increasing the supply will actually drive down oil company profits and drive up the taxes/fees to the government so it will be a win-win situation as far as most libs are concerned. ;-)
* - http://import-export.suite101.com/article.cfm/leading_oil_export_countries (2008) (America is number 18 on the list of exporters) - "While the United States exports only 12.6% of its own domestically produced oil, the top 10 oil export countries generate over half of global oil export shipments...
Countries Exporting Less Than 80% of Their Oil Production
America uses most of the fuel that it drills at home, as shown by the low percentage for exported U.S. oil.
1. United States … 12.6% of domestic oil production was exported
2. Russia … 51.5%
3. Mexico … 59.9%
4. Iran … 60.7%
5. Canada … 73.5%
6. Kazakhstan … 74.7%
7. Libya … 77.1%
8. Venezuela … 78.6%
9. Iraq … 79.1%.
The planet will be safe no matter what man does to it. God knew we would be a bunch of screw-ups and planned accordingly! Why else would He have created oil eating bacteria??? One of my blog articles has a chart of the worst oil spills over the past 30 years and the Gulf Of Mexico actually had one in 1979 that was TEN TIMES WORSE than the BP oil spill and as far as I can tell, we are all still here down on the Gulf... at least I am. After America ran Saddam out of Kuwait in 91-92, Saddam's forces destroyed thousands of rigs and refineries which dumped A HUNDRED TIMES more oil into their waters and as far as I know, they're still alive over there too. Nature is amazingly resourceful in the way it rebounds from both natural and man-made disasters.
UH OH... I feel another blog article coming on... but for my other blog, not my fish blog. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Dax G
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:23 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
you forgot to mention the winbdmills to create power.
Daniel
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:10 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
In order to have enough electricity from wind, to replace the amount of energy we get from oil and coal, we'd have to have half the country covered in windmill farms and the tree-huggers don't want that either. Even T. Boone Pickens gave up on his concept of building thousands of windmills across the mid-west once he looked into it more. The ONLY reason wind turbines are supposedly cost effective today is because of HUGE taxpayer subsidies and tax credits (OMG.. tax credits = Corporate Welfare.. lol).
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/22/news/economy/pickens_wind/index.htm (2008) - "...Government regulations - Another impediment to large-scale wind generation is a lack of turbines and infrastructure, said Hamilton. Companies like General Electric (GE, Fortune 500), India's Suzlon and Spain's Gamesa, which make wind turbines, aren't building enough of those turbines to meet demand because government tax credits offered to energy producers expire every two years. These tax credits are a big incentive for people to invest in wind energy - Pickens would net $60 million a year, according to Jefferies' Fremont, and that is likely why he's currently pitching his plan to lawmakers..."
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:16 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
All of this is Amber's fault for being bored and not getting enough messages from the group.
LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:34 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
yes! wait... what? lol
Amber
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:08 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I was wondering how you were making out down there with this mess.
Drill? Sorry Len, I have serious doubts. When they opted to de-regulate back in the late 60's and 70's they jammed it down our throats that in the long run here in the US ----------------"How we would be paying much less for gas and home heating oil in the 90's and 2000's".
They are drilling their brains out, making money hand over fist, corporate profits are through the roof, and CEO's have pension and retirement coffers like the national debt and who's paying for it all?
How much is gas per gallon? OR_----------simply put.
Are we better off price wise now than in the sixties?
I think not!
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:52 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Greetings everyone,
Basically I am silent in the group and do not say much. But this message got my attention due to the fact I feel it is entirely wrong.
The United States and its people better wake up and the below statement tells me this is not happening and the same old hat is going on in the minds of many people. It make little to no difference if you live in the disaster area or not, as it affects all people, not just a few.
Until which time the United States and its peoples decide to stop being oil dependent and supporting countries who could care less about the USA they shall always be in some kind of problem. The problem is, too many people are in denial that the USA cannot become oil independent and go to a alternative energy source. We do not need to depend on other countries and be at their mercy for all history. We need to get at it and stop the crap and put money into alternative energy that will help us, no pollute or poison us.
The question is, what will it take to wake America up, perhaps something worse than this oil spill, which is a total disaster of which many will feel the affects of it for many years. Perhaps if BP lies to the world more about how this happened it will make it better. Living in denial of things is not going to make it better. Ignorance of what is going on is not happiness.
Brazil became oil independent and if they can do it, so can we. People have got to stop making up excuses and then setting in denial of them. It is ridiculous and how many disaster do we need to through, before someone gets smart? Oil is not the savior of the world nor can it bring independence to the USA that is totally dependent on other countries due to past mistakes and stupidity. We owe more money to other countries and have become so dependent on oil we may well never become independent of anything.
So to say we need more oil wells and should drill more is a foolish mistake that will only further the disasters we have already gone through too many times. While nuclear power plants provide clean energy, just exactly how safe are they and do we believe them? I don't.. maybe you do. How many times do you get lied too and continue to believe it? All good questions that no one wants to think about.
These are just my opinions and thoughts on this. I do not point any fingers at anyone nor do I implicate anyone of anything. But the people of the USA better wake up and stop letting other countries put us at their mercy.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:03 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Amen to that Ivan…
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:53 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
The problem with the left is that they want to shut down all low-cost energy solutions and suggest only non-existent or high priced energy as their solution... which would only further bankrupt an already nearly bankrupt America. Viable and affordable "green energy" solutions aren't even on the radar yet... not in the next 10-15 years and possibly much beyond that. By that time, America will have sent another TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of dollars overseas for imported energy supplies. While I certainly do not have a problem with working on "green energy" solutions to America's energy needs, we still need to continue with KNOWN workable energy supplies, such as Oil, Coal and Nuclear UNTIL these "green energy" supplies have proven to be viable and affordable.
The left and the spineless pol's in Washington have stopped so much of our energy solutions for the past 30 years (such as NO nuclear plants built in that time) while California stopped drilling off of it's coast at the same time it's inhabitants and especially the Hollywood-left have BIG CARS, BIG HOUSES AND FLY LOTS OF JET PLANES... while preaching to the rest of us that we should do without... what a bunch of hypocrites... just like those pol's in Washington.
If we stop our own drilling, building and mining now, and then in 10-15 years, the "green energy" solutions are not viable or affordable, America turn into a broken down third world country and TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE!!!
I guess some on the left might think that's a good thing... I DON'T!!!
And I'll say AMEN to myself for that one!!!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:49 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hi Ivan in South Dakota!
For a gentleman that usually stays quite you sure have said a lot!
And all of it true, sorry to say!
Being a bit older than most on the group, I spend a lot more time reflecting on what was, rather than what "is".
The United States has no intention of waking up, now or later. Why? Easy, there's no profit in it! That's a very sorry thing to say about one's own country but true nonetheless. Our values are such that it's pretty much a come day, go day mind set. I've often heard it said if there is one great downfall of the United States, it is in it's own complacency.
We proved this all on our own in the months just prior to World War ll and the attack on Pearl Harbor. Why get involved in world affairs? It's not affecting us, why should we brother? Let remain as an isolated nation. Well it did eventually affect us and the main idea or premise was the same. For Japan, it was raw materials for war along with OIL, for its war machine. After the US embargoed its scrap metal and oil export to Japan, they figured it best to move against us first, before we move on them.
Did we learn? Of course not! We had 9-11, didn't we? Nobody cares, nobody is paying any attention. No money, no profit in it. Is anyone watching the store? No, but they are sure watching the cash register and the American people are as usual, picking up the tab for it. I do believe in our current President but when he said BP paying and picking up the tab, NOT. If they go belly-up and declare bankruptcy, who pays then? Ask those folks in Louisana who are already without lively hoods.
Somewhere I read a very interesting statement: "Those who do not follow and learn from History are doomed to repeat it"!--------I rest my case.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:59 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You are overlooking the fact that we don't use any domestically drilled oil.it is nearly all imported overseas. Last I checked, Obama and folks on the left have pushed for clean coal technologies and some of us have been in favor of nuclear plants (not all of the left is against nuclear plants).
The reality is that over the past 60 years, oil companies have bought up patents for alternative fuel technologies. Do you realize that Henry Ford's first car was designed to run on a battery and that pressure from the oil industry caused GM to pull a very nice and very functional electric car from the market back in the 1990's? I think you need to stop listening to Rush and Beck and do a bit of research on what's really going on Lenny.
Viable and affordable green energy solutions are here now and have been here for quite some time.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:12 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
How can you honestly say, "... the fact that we don't use any domestically drilled oil..."??? If we are only exporting 12.6%, what do you think we are doing with the other 87.4%??? We are using it!!!
Down here in New Orleans area, we have dozens of oil refineries running 24/7 and they are refining LOTS of Louisiana oil, although there are many tankers of crude oil coming up the Mississippi River or more often, for the super-tankers, off-loading their supply at the LOOP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Offshore_Oil_Port.
NAME ONE VIABLE AND AFFORDABLE GREEN ENERGY SOLUTION!!! And I don't mean a windmill or solar energy panel farm powering someone's house or even a small town out in the country. It might work in very limited situations but that IS NOT VIABLE for major metropolitan areas where the MAJORITY of people live.
Or.. are you suggesting that the people who decided to move out into the countryside to enjoy the scenic views and open expanses of land have to give up their little piece of heaven in order to put hundreds or thousands of square miles of windmill farms and solar panel farms in order to supply the folks in New York and L.A.??? Those areas certainly DO NOT have the room to put up green energy solutions. Hell.. the Kennedy's raised a ruckus when a project was proposed to put windmills out in the waters near their compound. NONE OF THE leftist-elitists want to put these ugly windmill farms or solar farms or any other kind of energy solution near them but they sure want to have their BIG HOUSES, BIG LIMOUSINES, BIG PLANES and HELICOPTERS to run off all of the energy produced elsewhere. Like AlGore, they're all a bunch of "Do as I say, not as I do!" type people.
You need to stop listening to Olbermann and Madcow... oops.. Maddow.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:36 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hello Bill,
You are so correct, it is all about money and not the welfare of the people. What a sad world we live in indeed. We are doomed and no one cares unless it pays money.....Quite Biblical don't you think?
You rest your case.....and your case was correct.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:30 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Greetings everyone,
Lenny you talking to the people who have head this all before. 35 years ago when I was in my 30's they said the same thing. We need to continue to drill and build more of this and build more of that until which time we can get alternative energy into force. I say it again, Brazil did it, so can we. 35 years later, where are we, no further ahead than we were in the energy dept than we were 35 years ago. So your theory does not hold water, the USA congress and people have been through this over and over again over the last 40 years or more no doubt.
There is no money for social security, no money for alternative energy, no money for health, no money for this or that, but they can find Billions to clean up a oil mess and find trillions to fight a war. Don't you find that rather odd? The USA is supposedly broke and they are, there is no money for drilling, or anything else or so they would tell you. We do not need to wait another 35 years to have someone say the same things you just said and yet, be no further ahead than we are today.
Tens of thousands of people have already died, in a so called war, of which that money could have been put into alternative energy, but now our so called intelligent govt would say, we have no money for alternative energy, and blah blah blah. I for one am sick of that nonsense. That is all you head the Bush administration say, we are going to do this, we are going to do that, and all they did was get us into a war we did not need, now we are so far in debt we will never get out of it.
Anyway, I am done talking about this, it leads to no where and only causes hard feelings. There is no reason to discuss this any further.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:39 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
What exactly did Brazil do? You seem to imply that they no longer use oil... which is blatantly false. Yes, they had a VERY EXPENSIVE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED ethanol program but they also drilled, drilled, drilled for their own oil supplies off of their own coastlines. Ethanol only makes up 15-25% of the gasoline used in their cars... the other 75-85% comes from OIL. Note the below article is about Brazil's Road To Energy Independence... NOT no longer needing oil. They are producing crude oil at all-time record levels to meet their country's needs. They were also a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP when they started this government funded program... something we aren't YET!!!... although some on the left pray for a socialist dictatorship before they go to sleep every night. I DON'T!!! I pray to God, not the BHO-Messiah.
Here's a snip from a WashingtonPost.com article from a few years ago...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/19/AR2006081900842.html
Brazil's Road to Energy Independence (2006)
"...That experience has been a sometimes painful 30-year evolution, marked by plenty of foresight and numerous false starts. It was born of a uniquely Brazilian political and economic environment, but industry analysts say it nevertheless provides lessons for a fledgling U.S. ethanol program that is already on pace to dethrone Brazil's as the largest in the world.
Subsidies and Mandates
Brazil's military dictatorship launched the national ethanol program in 1975, when about 90 percent of its fuel consumption depended on foreign oil. The government offered subsidies to sugar cane growers and forced service stations in every town of at least 1,500 people to install ethanol pumps. By the early 1980s, almost all new cars sold in Brazil ran on 100 percent ethanol.
But as the decade progressed and the military government was replaced by democracy, oil prices plummeted and the subsidies granted to ethanol producers were eliminated. Sugar processing plants turned from ethanol to edible sugar, creating a shortage of supplies at service stations. The auto industry, which had dedicated itself to ethanol-only cars, stopped producing them almost entirely.
"It was as if from one day to the next, the people who had ethanol cars had a problem on their hands, because no one wanted to buy them," said Henry Joseph Jr., head of the engineering program for Volkswagen of Brazil. "Ethanol cars went all the way from more than 90 percent of sales to less than 1 percent..."
And from this more recent source...
http://www.naturalnews.com/024082_Brazil_ethanol_oil_independence.html
Brazil's Oil Independence May Not Be a Model Worth Emulating
Saturday, September 06, 2008
"Brazil is having another banner year. It has reached energy equilibrium, exporting as much oil as it imports. Its production of domestic oil is at an all time high, as is the production of sugar based ethanol. At the service stations, ethanol is for sale right along side of the gas pumps. Brazil is also the destination of U.S. lawmakers and venture capitalists looking for America's future. As the by products of Brazil's quest for energy independence become known, it may be time to question the zeal with which some American's seek to emulate this model..."
Read the entire article to find out the "by products" of their quest. Here is part of the negative effects of ethanol production...
"...Another part of this capital was used to purchase more than 20 million hectares (1 hectare = 2.47 acres) of Brazilian land, particularly in the mid-west regions and the Brazilian agricultural frontier. The rest went to the Amazon. The result is exploitation of Brazil's abundant natural resources and biodiversity.
This exploitation can be best characterized as agricultural monoculture. Eucalyptus, a plant extremely useful for electricity generation and ethanol, is to be cultured exclusively throughout a section of the country in the south all the way to the border with Uruguay. Thousands of hectares of industrial plantations will be destroyed to create what is in effect a green desert. Sugarcane monoculture for ethanol production and export will also be expanded, including 77 new ethanol processing plants that will be built along four major pipelines..."
Oh yeah Eric... and all that Sugarcane and Eucalyptus farming and all the farming run-off and the taking of the Amazon also hurts fish... a LOT more than oil rigs which are actually homes to thousands of fish.
You seem to want the government to be the solution to all of America's problems when in fact, the government is the cause of most of America's problems... not the solution. All of the things you complain about in your last reply... "no money for social security, ... alternative energy, ... health(care), ... war..." are ALL GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS that you admit are broken.. although I personally think our war machine works quite well! ;-) Well.. who do *you* think has managed to run them all into the ground... that's right.. your so-called all-knowing, all-powerful government. So how can you possibly think the government can do something else right... so-called "green energy"... when nearly everything else they do fails. If it wasn't for the private sector being involved in many other government programs, those programs would likely fail as well.
I don't have any hard feelings. Maybe I'm blessed but I can have an intelligent debate without getting mad or having any hard feelings. I may not invite everyone to a "beer summit at taxpayer expense" afterwards but I won't have any hard feelings. I'll still sleep like a baby tonight... although I heard a comedian once explain how that analogy is so NOT TRUE since babies don't sleep very long between their two hour scream-fests for feeding times. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve S
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:25 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Bill,
The price of oil is not set by the oil companies. It is set by the market and what people are willing to pay for it. By people, I'm not talking you and me, but those who make their living buying and selling oil for others, be they countries or companies. The industrialization of Asia, particularly China, has placed a new strain on the supplies of oil and help cause prices to rise.
While there may have been some deregulation of oil, it is still a heavily regulated business. The real problem is that the environmentalists have made it very difficult for companies to drill in this country, on shore and off shore. Apparently, there is a large reservoir of oil under the upper Midwest of this country just waiting to be tapped. Some think that it could supply this country will all the oil it needs, and more, into the foreseeable future. However, no one has been allowed to tap it to even test the viability of drilling in that area, and to get solid estimates about how much oil there may be there.
Presume a gallon of regular gas cost $0.33 in 1965. Today, that same gallon would cost $2.28 according to http://www.usinflationcalculatior.com/. Using http://www.gasbuddy.com/, it looks like the price of regular around here is about $2.69. So, yes, prices have increased, but not by as much as most people think. (My current car requires premium, so I really had no idea what regular went for.)
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve Szabo
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:42 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Eric,
I hate to burst your bubble, but there is not an electric car made that could get me through one day on one charge of the batteries, though the Tesla comes close. Other alternative fuels are non-starters, where do I purchase them when I need them?
Where is your proof that the oil companies have been buying up patents for alternative fuels?
As far as your assertion that GM had to pull an electric car from the market in the '90's (I do not even recall them marketing one, and I used to be a big car freak), it was probably more to consumer acceptance, or, more correctly, absence of consumer acceptance of the vehicle. Whether it was a design issue, or the fact it was electric, I would not know, since I do not recall such a car.
The fact is that every alternative fuel thus far developed has drawbacks that will prevent, and have prevented them from becoming acceptable to the general public. None of them have proven to be as inexpensive as gasoline (or diesel) or produce the amount of power per given unit as gasoline. Until these factors are overcome, you can go ahead and blame the lack of a viable alternative fuel on the oil companies quashing them (the other popular target are the car companies themselves).
I'll return you to your regularly scheduled aquatic discussions. Don't forget that algae is being investigated as an energy source.
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hi Eric and all,
How very interesting you should bring up the electric car and there was also a car that run on water. About 6 years ago, CNN news brought that subject up and had people call in (remember the call CNN days, they still do it but very limited). My brother in law called them and asked why the car industry took it off the market and what did they have to replace it and why there was a cover up about it, believe it or not, CNN news would not discuss that and hung up on him. What does that tell you?
Big industry runs this world and people have allowed it to happen. They have the people of the USA so frightened and bullied into submission that they I think would agree to anything. We do not live in slavery, but aha, do we? Mental slavery is just as bad as physical slavery.
There is very little Obama can really do, the table has been set long before he came into office and that table may not be able to be corrected if the setting is wrong or if someone more powerful than him does not want it corrected. President Obama is in a very difficult situation and I would not want to walk in his shoes for the simple reason, he is damned if he does and damned if he does not.
The world is a horrible mess and it is not getting better and the powers that be do not care, it goes way beyond most people's wisdom and knowledge in this.
We need to get off this subject matter, it will frighten people and I am sure none of us wish to do that.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of caroline c
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:53 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.. You are the man.. WOW.. and on my fish list. Thank you for saying what I cannot.. may I send this to other friends.. I am on the tea party list.. but, you say it better than anyone.. thank you.. thank you....
caroline in california
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:45 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Feel free to forward... or better yet, just give them my Rants and Raves blog link, which is mostly political rants and news but also includes product reviews, computer tech articles, etc., http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/, as I'm sure this thread will make it to my blog in the next day or two. I'm actually copying/pasting as I type and editing out any names/identifiers other than my own... to protect the innocent and maybe the guilty as well. LOL
Fish... and this is all Amber's fault! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:59 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I don't entertain conspiracy theories for very long so I won't comment on them but... although the "Manchurian Candidate-with-a-twist" does pop into my head from time to time. LOL JUST KIDDDDINNNGGGG!!! LOL
Then there are the major problems of charging all of the electric cars if all fuel powered vehicles were replaced today. The majority of our electricity comes from coal powered electric plants (since we haven't built a nuclear plant in 30 years) so we would be doing away with relatively clean burning gasoline and replace that with burning coal for the electricity... and we'd have to burn a LOT more coal to charge up all the cars. That means "MINE BABY, MINE!" would be the new mantra instead of "DRILL BABY, DRILL!" ;-)
Of course, I'm in favor of doing ALL OF THE ABOVE when it comes to energy but the DOMESTIC low-cost and viable energy sources should continue to grow until we can lessen our dependence on foreign oil and then we can spend those BILLIONS OR TRILLIONS of dollars that OUR GOVERNMENT makes off of the taxes from all that domestic energy to look at longer term so-called "green energy" solutions.
FISH!!! And remember this is all Amber's fault! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
file://steve//
The retail price of gas also includes Local, State and Federal taxes, that in some areas, raise the price by nearly $1.00 a gallon. In Louisiana, taxes increase the price by nearly 60 cents a gallon. That equates to effectively, a 30% tax rate!!! since the gas would only be $2.00 without the 60 cents in taxes so the price of gas is actually MUCH CHEAPER than in 1965 since they didn't have all the taxes.. or hardly any on gas back then. Many other areas are MUCH HIGHER in the amount of taxes they add so that the people don't even realize how much they are paying. We had a retailer down here who put stickers on all of his pumps itemizing the various taxes and fees, per gallon, and he found out that it is AGAINST THE LAW for him to publish this information at the pump but there are websites where folks can find out what they are paying...
Here's a snip from Wikipedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#United_States
United States
Fuel taxes in the United States vary by state. For the first quarter of 2009, the mean state gasoline tax is 27.2 cents per US gallon, plus 18.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 45.6 cents per US gallon (12.0 ¢/L). For diesel, the mean state tax is 26.6 cents per US gallon plus an additional 24.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 50.8 cents US per gallon (13.4 ¢/L).[7] There are also a few states that charge sales tax on top of the excise taxes and the retail price.
More here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States
Here's a history of the Federal Gas Tax and States followed suit with their own taxes later on. We can thank Hoover for the Federal Gas Tax... I wonder if that's where the vacuum cleaner name came from... since they both suck! LOL
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/gastax.cfm
The Revenue Act of 1932 - "... Together, Hoover and Mills formulated the most brutal peacetime revenue bill the country had ever seen. The bill called for a rise in estate taxes from 23 percent to 45 percent, an increase in personal income taxes from 23 percent to 45 percent, a rise in corporation taxes, a sales tax, a drastic modification of capital gains advantages..."
Man, this is starting to look kind of fishy! (I wanted to get fish into the reply without relying on the trusty old "FISH!" ending. LOL)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve S
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:15 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
For most people, the price they see at the pump is the price of the gas.
Thought of taxes does not come into it at all. I do not know if the federal tax has risen since 1965, stayed the same or declined, but most states have raised their taxes on the fuel since then. It is still amazing to most people that they are only paying a slightly higher amount for gas than they did when they were younger.
Do keep in mind that the American public, in general, is completely unaware of many things that affect their daily lives, one of the reasons the politicians can hoodwink them nearly any time. Most have no idea how the market works, that oil companies have very little effect on pricing, much as is the case of farmers, who get a very small proportion of each dollar spent on food for their hard work in producing it.
I probably should look up some of the old ads for fish I have in various catalogues and magazines hanging around and do the same analysis on them to see what the difference in price is today from back then.
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:45 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I think people need to be frightened so maybe they will actually take action. Logic and reason hasn’t worked.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:14 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Americans are frightened at record numbers! Haven't you been hearing all the GREAT news about the Tea Party Activists???
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:15 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
OK I have said enough about this, it is getting mean now and there is no reason for that. you believe what you wish, I could care less. These were my opinions and that is all, I will not contribute to any further chatter on this as it will go on and on and on and get no where, just like the energy crisis. When you become dependent on another, that other becomes a parasite upon you and that is what the USA has allowed other countries to do to us, make us dependent on them. But you believe what you wish and in 35 years if I am still alive, I will come back and say, I told you so. All this nonsense was said 40 years ago and we are no further now then we were then. Enough said...
You all have a good day
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:12 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
It seems we actually agree that America should be doing everything possible to become energy independent. There are still PLENTY of proven oil and coal reserves that haven't been touched yet so those should be harvested while we start building LOTS of nuclear plants and working on other so-called "green energy" sources like wind and solar to find out if they are viable before investing government (aka taxpayer) money into them. If they are viable, the private sector and local utilities will gladly jump on the bandwagon. If they aren't viable, let the private sector and investors take the risk, not the taxpayers... we're paying for enough government boondoggles already!!!
Further, have you ever thought about what might happen to the "wind supply" or wind patterns when we put up thousands of those big wind turbines all over the open plains of America? In the long run, they could disrupt the wind patterns and ultimately affect weather patterns. And all of them solar collectors are HUGE sources of heat that could also affect weather patterns much like the heat generated by the "concrete jungles" (cities) affect the local weather in their areas with more occurrences of afternoon thunder showers. There are global-warming scientists (that's almost an oxymoron.. lol) studying these possibilities already. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/302/5651/1719
Maybe you will be the lucky one and not be around to see the man-made disasters caused by all these wind turbines and solar cell farms. I'll still be around in 35 years to see what happens... if America lasts that long... or will it be Amerika by then. ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:36 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Eric said, among other things...
"The car that was pulled was pretty popular amongst those who were driving it. They made a pretty huge deal over GM taking the car back. Check out he movie.I think I have the title right."Who killed the electric car". ( http://ev1.org/chevron.htm )"
Lenny says...
This car simply was not viable. If not for HUGE government subsidies (1.25 BILLION DOLLARS) and State mandates (mainly Kalifornia), these cars would not have been built and people would not have been able to afford them, which is why GM had to take them back. Some folks complained that they weren't given the option to buy their cars at the end of their three year leases but none of them were willing to pay the $80,000 to $100,000 price tag either... and GM didn't want to have to carry the price tag of producing parts for the few remaining cars... not to mention the potential liability issues. Then when you factor in the cost of electricity and the amount of COAL that has to be burned to charge up these electric cars, they create just as much pollution as gas powered cars. They simply were not a viable alternative to gas powered vehicles. Even todays hybrid vehicles are being subsidized by the government or their prices would not be viable either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
"While customer reaction to the EV1 was positive, GM believed that electric cars occupied an unprofitable niche of the automobile market as they were only able to lease 800 units in face of production costs of US$1 billion over four years.[9]...
...GM based the lease payments for the EV1 on an initial vehicle price of US$33,995.[5] Lease payments ranged from around $299 to $574 per month, depending on the availability of state rebates.[citation needed] Since GM did not offer consumers the option to purchase at the end of the lease, the car's residual value was never established, making it impossible to determine the actual full purchase price or replacement value. One industry official said that each EV1 cost the company about US$80,000, including research, development and other associated costs;[60] other estimates placed the vehicle's actual cost as high as $100,000.[5] GM stated the cost of the EV1 program at slightly less than $500 million before marketing and sales costs, and over $1 billion in total; a portion of this cost was defrayed by the Clinton Administration's $1.25 billion Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV) program..."
I'm not going to address all the other links since many of them are also based on conspiracy theories.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:26 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
That's fear mongering with lies and mistruths and getting people to vote against their own self interests by corporatist politicians and public figures. People need to see the truth and be fearful of the path their self imposed state of stupidity is leading us..
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
It can also be very easily achievable by installing wither solar panels or using wind turbines on site and not even using any of the energy off of the grid to accomplish this.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:57 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You still don't accept the FACT that without government subsidies, solar panels and wind turbines are not viable. 99% of the people that are putting these things on their homes/properties are ONLY doing it due to HUGE tax credits or outright subsidies... not withstanding the companies making these things are also getting tax credits or outright subsidies on the production end. Take away the subsidies and they aren't viable. The payback would be hundreds of years instead of the 10-20 year payback for the subsidized products. If we subsidize everybody getting a wind turbine and solar farm on their rooftop, while you may not be paying your electric company, you'll be paying FAR MORE due to government overspending, deficit spending and the interest costs on our soon to be $20 TRILLION national debt.
My monthly electric bill runs around $100.00 a month. My share of the national debt is around $100,000.00. I can pay a lot of electric bills with that $100K.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:33 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Disrupt the wind patterns.ok.now that was funny Lenny...where did you pull that out of (besides a certain orifice? hehehe)
The difference in the concrete jungle is that the energy doesn't go anywhere and just gets transferred back into the atmosphere creating temperature anomalies. With solar, it gets transferred into electricity or used to heat water like your water heater. Remember the Law of Conservation of Energy.energy is neither gained nor destroyed.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I think your "certain orifice" (quoting you) also applies to much of what you've said. I just didn't go there with you... but now that you've brought it up. ;-)
I didn't make it up. There are actually left-leaning scientists using government grant money to study this potential wind anomaly. For the folks downwind of these massive wind turbine farms, instead of a normal breeze, the wind will have been disrupted and disturbed by hundreds or thousands of HUGE spinning fan blades. The wind pattern coming off of a wind turbine comes off in a MUCH different pattern than the wind going into the wind turbine. This is why they can't have them too close together. I don't know all of the aeronautical terms but on a different scale, it's the same thing that can happen when one jet flies into the jet stream of another jet and the wind is so disturbed that it causes the following jet's engines to have MAJOR problems. The same thing happens to one boat following another boat with the water being disturbed by the first boats propellers. I think it's called cavitation when it happens to boats.
And don't forget all of the birds that are killed by these wind turbines every year.
"The latest independent reports estimate the number of birds killed by wind turbines at about 100,000 per year. That's according to a 2007 report from the National Research Council called "Environmental Impacts of Wind-Energy Projects.
The American Bird Conservancy estimated in 2003 that between 10,000 and 40,000 birds were killed each year at wind farms across the country, about 80 percent of which were songbirds and 10 percent birds of prey. 'With the increased capacity over the last seven years, we now estimate that 100,000 – 300,000 birds are killed by wind turbines each year,' said Conservancy spokesman Robert Johns."
Of course, if I lived near a wind turbine farm, I'd just send Granny Clampet out to collect me some road-kill (or would that be fan-kill???) every day for some good road-kill stew! Hopefully, most of the feathers got knocked off in the process so I have less plucking to do. LOL
As far as your comment that the heat is used to heat water, the last I've seen of the BIG solar panel farms, there's not a lot of plumbing running off of them to nearby home's hot water heaters. Those farms collect LOTS OF HEAT and there are many ways that they are trying to solve the HEAT issue... but what about the long term effects of having all of this heat build up in areas that didn't have it in the past?
Further, how will the capture of all of this sunlight and heat affect the earth. Right now, the sun and heat from the sun goes into the earth's ecology but if the world starts putting MASSIVE solar panel farms everywhere there is now farmland or other open space, the sun will not be hitting the earth in those areas, likely affecting the ecology in those areas.
Whether it's oil, coal, nuclear, wind, sun or any other source of energy, the old "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature" saying is still applicable and should not be dismissed... as is "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"... so for those folks who think there is a so-called "green energy" solution, who knows what kind of environmental damage will be caused by these so-called "green energy" concepts. I'm not saying we shouldn't explore other options, but don't go blindly rushing into these unknown concepts when they start to be used on a larger scale.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:29 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And I should add this snip from the Wall Street Journal...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574376543308399048.html
Windmills Are Killing Our Birds (2009)
On Aug. 13, ExxonMobil pleaded guilty in federal court to killing 85 birds that had come into contact with crude oil or other pollutants in uncovered tanks or waste-water facilities on its properties. The birds were protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which dates back to 1918. The company agreed to pay $600,000 in fines and fees.
ExxonMobil is hardly alone in running afoul of this law. Over the past two decades, federal officials have brought hundreds of similar cases against energy companies. In July, for example, the Oregon-based electric utility PacifiCorp paid $1.4 million in fines and restitution for killing 232 eagles in Wyoming over the past two years. The birds were electrocuted by poorly-designed power lines.
Yet there is one group of energy producers that are not being prosecuted for killing birds: wind-power companies. And wind-powered turbines are killing a vast number of birds every year.
A July 2008 study of the wind farm at Altamont Pass, Calif., estimated that its turbines kill an average of 80 golden eagles per year. The study, funded by the Alameda County Community Development Agency, also estimated that about 10,000 birds—nearly all protected by the migratory bird act—are being whacked every year at Altamont...
...But that said, the carnage there likely represents only a fraction of the number of birds killed by windmills. Michael Fry of the American Bird Conservancy estimates that U.S. wind turbines kill between 75,000 and 275,000 birds per year. Yet the Justice Department is not bringing cases against wind companies.
"Somebody has given the wind industry a get-out-of-jail-free card," Mr. Fry told me. "If there were even one prosecution," he added, the wind industry would be forced to take the issue seriously.
(END SNIP)
Is this because the mostly spineless Republican pol's are afraid to stand up to the mostly hypocrite Democrat pol's... or is it because both sides of the aisle in Washington get their bribes from the energy companies and it's ONLY politically correct to attack oil companies and standard electric companies and that Republican pol's don't like attacking any big business and Democrat pol's dare not attack so-called "green energy" companies or fear the wrath of the tree-huggers surrounding their homes and picketing their offices.
ExxonMobile got hit with $600K in fines for 85 birds, which averages over $7,000 per bird, so the windmill farm industry should be paying over $700 MILLION each year based on the average figure of 100,000 birds a year... or as much as $1.9 TRILLION based on 275,000 birds. Now, factor those fines into the cost of the electricity they are producing and all of a sudden, their prices aren't so affordable.
The above shows the PURE HYPOCRISY of the so-called "green energy" movement. They can't play on a level playing field and wouldn't exist without LOTS OF GOVERNMENT-TO-CORPORATE WELFARE going to BIG GREEN ENERGY BUSINESSES. How can the left possibly like all that corporate welfare? Oh yeah... they love Government-To-Corporate Welfare when it's going to them and their businesses or non-profit corporations like Acorn.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:14 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
A couple of panels and a single wind turbine will create enough for one house (if you are ever up in the Chicago area Lenny.I'd love to show you my neighbor's house. The have a turbine and 2 solar panels and they make money off of the excess electricity they don't use by selling it to ComEd).they do already have working solar and wind farms that contribute a lot of energy to the grid. They are working on building even more in the SW.
The farms don't have to be right in the city, just like the electrical generation plants do not have to be right in the city. In LA, there are a lot of open desert areas that can be used quite efficiently and even with little harm to the environment. You can put turbine farms offshore. They can even make use to tidal generators on the coasts. In big cities, they can make turbines that can be attached to the tops of buildings. If you have ever been in a big city, you would know that it is pretty windy.even on a calm day, when you get on top of a sky scraper. Even if it doesn't reduce fossil fuel use 100%, it does reduce it considerably.
As far as this leftist elitist BS red herring (great way to work in a fish hehehe). here's an infesting article for you to peruse. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/GlobalWarming/story?id=2906888&page=1
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:35 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Ummmm... you're losing your street-cred fast here. I can promise you that there are NO "desert areas" in Louisiana... lots of good desserts... but absolutely NO deserts.
I think I've addressed the rest of your assertions.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:58 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Sure Lenny.People have been using solar and wind for a lot longer than there have been tax credits.next piece of conservative BS?
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:44 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
ALL of the modern and recent solar and wind technology is HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED by government programs... from studies being done by many universities to R & D at many corporations to the actual cost of production and consumer purchase of these so-called "green energy" products. Hell, BHO even has the subsidies and tax credits for caulking windows now. Folks should caulk their own damned windows without expecting other taxpayers to subsidize them.
Thanks for recognizing my conservatism! I'll sleep much better tonight!
I don't know what Barbara Streisand (your comment about BS) has to do with my conservatism though.. she's a typical left-wing liberal hypocrite.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:56 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
In otherwords you really can't address the other links.typical conservative cop put when faced with facts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:38 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
A bunch of URL's, without any hint as to what might be enclosed in them, are NOT facts.
At least provide a snip of what you are hinting at or relying on in the link you provide... or to at least prove you've actually read the content before I'm going to open the link and read through and reply to a possibly LONG page of opinion or conspiracy theories.
As you've seen, when I reply with my "facts", I include multiple sources and usually reliable or well referenced sources, not just likely opinion pages. If every website was a fact, then you'd be a good conservative by reading my other blog since according to you, it's all fact and not opinion.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:43 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Didn't notice the link on the bottom of the page in reference to wind turbines. http://www.currykerlinger.com/studies.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:44 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I provide you links and references to the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the NY Times, the National Research Council and the American Bird Conservancy, etc.... and you provide a link to a currykerlinger.com ... WTF is a currykerlinger.com? Is he any relation to curlylarrymoe.com? LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:44 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Didn't realize you meant Louisiana.thought you meant Los Angeles since you were talking about cities like New York.Louisiana isn't a city Lenny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:13 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You need to re-read what you're replying to. This entire discussion started with me saying that I'm starting up a Gulf Of Mexico biotope tank with oil floating on the top, dead fish, birds and turtles floating on top and a little burning oil well.... as a joke about what's happening "down here", since I live "down here" in Louisiana. I've made countless references to me living down here dozens of times in this thread and hundreds... no, make that thousands of times in this forum. Your reply saying there were "deserts in LA" was a direct reply to my reply which included this SECOND paragraph:
"Down here in the New Orleans area, we have dozens of oil refineries running 24/7 and they are refining LOTS of Louisiana oil, although there are many tankers of crude oil coming up the Mississippi River or more often, for the super-tankers, off-loading their supply at the LOOP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Offshore_Oil_Port."
Then in paragraph three, I made reference to "New York and L.A." (note the periods following the L and the A, which stands for Los Angeles, the city, since LA stands for Louisiana). Of course, I didn't say New York City, which is what I was referring to when you look at the context of that paragraph talking about limited land area, so maybe my failure to include the word "City" or not refer to New York as N.Y. was confusing to you since New York is also the State... but even in your below reply, you say "were talking about cities like New York" so you know I was talking about the city of New York and the obvious city of L.A... so now I'm confused about how you could have been confused.
Your "deserts in LA" comment did not include periods so you were obviously referring to Louisiana, not Los Angeles.... right? But since we both know I was talking about cities, by your own admission noted above, there are also NO deserts in the City of L.A. either... or did you mean to type CA as in California or did you mean the County of Los Angeles, which is not referred to as "L.A." very often, if at all, and if you did a poll of what "L.A." stands for, you'll get a high percentage, of those that have a clue, saying it means Los Angeles? Of course, if you poll the people in L.A., such as Jay Leno does on the JayWalking segments, most of them might answer "Lunar Acclipse"... but if they guessed "Lost Angels", at least they'd be close. LMAO
Just to make sure I was right about NO deserts in L.A. either, I did a search on the Wikipedia page for the City of Los Angeles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles and there was only one hit for the word "desert" and it was to a "Further Reading" link to a book called "Cadillac Desert", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:32 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Lets see.Exxon was fines because it killed birds as a result of their negligence that caused a major oil spill. The electric company was fined because birds died as a result of faulty wires. The drop in the bucket that comes from turbines is not due to negligence. Nice try by spouting from yet another conservative mouth piece.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:43 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
There you go again... not reading my well referenced and quoted material.
ExxonMobil was fined due to some birds landing in their "uncovered tanks" and/or "waste water facilities", not for an oil spill.
The electric company, PacifiCorp, was fined for allegedly having "poorly designed lines", which I guess could be extrapolated to mean faulty but the power lines worked as intended, providing power to the people so they weren't faulty... just possibly poorly designed according to some leftist Judge in Kalifornia, which we all know has some of the most whacked out leftist Judges in the country and especially on the Federal 9th Circuit Court Of Appeals... whose decisions are the most overturned decisions of any circuit in America.
I don't know how you can say "The drop in the bucket that comes from turbines..." when ExxonMobil was fined for 85 birds and Pacificorp was fined for 232 birds AND wind turbines kill between 75,000 and 275,000 birds a year.... according to the American Bird Conservancy, which I can assure you is NOT a conservative mouth piece. If anything, it's a bleeding heart bird-hugging group. Maybe you misunderstood their website title, "American Bird Conservancy: Bird Conservation In The Americas" http://www.abcbirds.org/. Conservation is NOT the same as Conservative or Conservatism... but it's an interesting comparison... the Bird Conservancy wants to conserve or save bird lives in America and Conservatives want to conserve our tax dollars and save innocent human lives in America.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And you did specify Los Angeles."the folks in New York and L.A.???" Never saw Louisiana abbreviated as L.A. only as LA. I will assume that was a typo on your part.
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:19 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
See my reply, just sent a moment ago.
I NEVER used "L.A." as an abbreviation for Louisiana... except for maybe in your mind... but you did use LA as an abbreviation for Los Angeles, in your own words.
Your confusion is getting the best of you now. You better get some sleep now!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber B
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:47 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Is it just me or is the group really quiet lately? I haven't gotten any posts and I even sent one myself ;) lol.
Amber
And my first reply that led to this discussion and debate...
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:54 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Have you checked your deodorant and mouthwash lately?
Just kidddddiiinnnnggggg!!! LOL
If you look at the group's home page http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/, down near the bottom where there is the Message History table, you'll see that messages always slow down in May, June, July, August. I think this is due to summer time and more kids being home and taking up parents time and computer time, as well as vacations, etc. Granted, messages are much slower this year than in past years. It could be related to the global economy and maybe not as many folks getting into the hobby right now.
I'm thinking about setting up a new low cost salt water tank right now... a Gulf Of Mexico biotope.... some dead fish, turtles and birds floating on top of some crude oil in a salt water tank. At least it's low maintenance! ;-) LOL
Or, after all that, maybe it is your deodorant and mouthwash! LOL
Oh yeah... fish!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber B
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:22 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Gosh that tanks gonna smell to high heaven Lenny ;) lol.
I think I remembered to wear deodorant... hey wait you guys can't smell me through email ;) LOL
Amber
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:41 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I forgot to mention that I'm going to have a little burning oil well on the surface of my "Gulf Of Mexico biotope tank" so the smoke should mask the smell of the dead critters. LOL
While I joke about this... and since I live down here I can joke about it... I actually believe the LSM (Lame Stream Media) is paying far too much attention to the relatively few oil covered birds, turtles, marshes and beaches and NOT nearly enough attention to the 11 workers who died in the accident and the hundreds, even thousands of Americans who will DIE HORRIBLE DEATHS in the coming months and years due to "necessarily skyrocket(ing)" crude oil prices... when they can't afford to heat their homes in the winter and cool their homes in the summer. IT'S TIME NOW, MORE THAN EVER, TO DRILL BABY, DRILL (Oil and Gas wells); BUILD BABY, BUILD (Nuclear Plants); MINE BABY, MINE (Coal) and anything else that is proven to produce low cost energy instead of sending TRILLIONS of more American dollars to foreign countries.
Oops.. sorry for the semi-political rant but it does have to do with the environment too! I do most of my political rants on my other blog... http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/ and my four articles about my thoughts on the BP Oil Spill are here... http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP%20Oil%20Spill
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
And NOW, the JUICY debate and discussion starts...
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:03 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Well.drill, baby, drill, without safety first is what got us into this (Thanks Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney). Do you realize that this has nothing to do with the cost of crude prices as this rig was still years out from actual production. Most of our domestically produces oil is actually exported, so no matter how much you chant drill, baby, drill, it's not going to help us get off foreign oil. What we need to do is work on alternative energy like ethanol and biodiesel from environmentally and renewable sources (can you say hemp and switch grass as well as from agro waste?). The only thing domestic drilling does is make the oil companies richer and the planet less safe.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:55 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And while America sits on our hands, contemplating "green energy" concepts...
China is building 500 coal powered electric plants over the next ten years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6769743.stm (2007) - "China is now building about two power stations every week, the top climate change official at the UK Foreign Office, John Ashton, has said."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/world/asia/11coal.html (2009) - "TIANJIN, China — China’s frenetic construction of coal-fired power plants has raised worries around the world about the effect on climate change. China now uses more coal than the United States, Europe and Japan combined, making it the world’s largest emitter of gases that are warming the planet."
http://windfarms.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/china-building-500-coal-plants/ (2009) - "At the two minute mark of the video below, from Australia, we learn that China is building 500 coal plants over the next ten years — One new power plant every four days.
China is exempt from KYOTO
Think About it!
In Ontario, Canada, the govt. is filling rural Ont. with wind turbines under the guise of saving the environment and closing our four coal plants. (wind has never been responsible for the closure of any fossil fuel plant) We are going to close four coal plants at the same time China builds one every four days.
Think About it!
In the USA, Obama said he will bankrupt the coal plants.
Think About it.
The Scam is Huge"
France gets 77% of their electricity from nuclear power plants. America gets less than 20%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_by_country
Unless or until ALL countries are going to go green and green energy is affordable... right now it is subsidized by huge margins by government dollars... meaning taxpayer dollars... so even the folks who think they are buying this so-called lower-priced-due-to-subsidies green energy, the energy still costs a LOT more and other people are paying for it... one day, when we finally start to balance our federal budget and have to start paying off the ridiculous national debt.... but back to the point, unless or until ALL countries are going to go green, it's STUPID for America to KILL AMERICAN'S due to high energy prices while other countries are burning fossil fuels at rates America hasn't ever come close to.
As far as your comment about "most" domestic oil being exported, that is simply NOT TRUE that "most" oil is exported, it's less than 15% (see *)... and further, it doesn't matter if it was "most" since crude oil prices are based on global supply and demand pricing. What matters is increasing the supply considerably which will drive down the prices to the consumers... and that will also punish the oil companies that you feel are making too much money... not withstanding that oil companies make just a few pennies a gallon after they find the oil, drill for the oil, transport the oil, refine the oil and then deliver the oil and gas to consumers... and the government is taking TEN TO TWENTY TIMES MORE in taxes/fees for doing nothing. Increasing the supply will actually drive down oil company profits and drive up the taxes/fees to the government so it will be a win-win situation as far as most libs are concerned. ;-)
* - http://import-export.suite101.com/article.cfm/leading_oil_export_countries (2008) (America is number 18 on the list of exporters) - "While the United States exports only 12.6% of its own domestically produced oil, the top 10 oil export countries generate over half of global oil export shipments...
Countries Exporting Less Than 80% of Their Oil Production
America uses most of the fuel that it drills at home, as shown by the low percentage for exported U.S. oil.
1. United States … 12.6% of domestic oil production was exported
2. Russia … 51.5%
3. Mexico … 59.9%
4. Iran … 60.7%
5. Canada … 73.5%
6. Kazakhstan … 74.7%
7. Libya … 77.1%
8. Venezuela … 78.6%
9. Iraq … 79.1%.
The planet will be safe no matter what man does to it. God knew we would be a bunch of screw-ups and planned accordingly! Why else would He have created oil eating bacteria??? One of my blog articles has a chart of the worst oil spills over the past 30 years and the Gulf Of Mexico actually had one in 1979 that was TEN TIMES WORSE than the BP oil spill and as far as I can tell, we are all still here down on the Gulf... at least I am. After America ran Saddam out of Kuwait in 91-92, Saddam's forces destroyed thousands of rigs and refineries which dumped A HUNDRED TIMES more oil into their waters and as far as I know, they're still alive over there too. Nature is amazingly resourceful in the way it rebounds from both natural and man-made disasters.
UH OH... I feel another blog article coming on... but for my other blog, not my fish blog. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Dax G
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:23 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
you forgot to mention the winbdmills to create power.
Daniel
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:10 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
In order to have enough electricity from wind, to replace the amount of energy we get from oil and coal, we'd have to have half the country covered in windmill farms and the tree-huggers don't want that either. Even T. Boone Pickens gave up on his concept of building thousands of windmills across the mid-west once he looked into it more. The ONLY reason wind turbines are supposedly cost effective today is because of HUGE taxpayer subsidies and tax credits (OMG.. tax credits = Corporate Welfare.. lol).
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/22/news/economy/pickens_wind/index.htm (2008) - "...Government regulations - Another impediment to large-scale wind generation is a lack of turbines and infrastructure, said Hamilton. Companies like General Electric (GE, Fortune 500), India's Suzlon and Spain's Gamesa, which make wind turbines, aren't building enough of those turbines to meet demand because government tax credits offered to energy producers expire every two years. These tax credits are a big incentive for people to invest in wind energy - Pickens would net $60 million a year, according to Jefferies' Fremont, and that is likely why he's currently pitching his plan to lawmakers..."
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:16 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
All of this is Amber's fault for being bored and not getting enough messages from the group.
LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:34 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
yes! wait... what? lol
Amber
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:08 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I was wondering how you were making out down there with this mess.
Drill? Sorry Len, I have serious doubts. When they opted to de-regulate back in the late 60's and 70's they jammed it down our throats that in the long run here in the US ----------------"How we would be paying much less for gas and home heating oil in the 90's and 2000's".
They are drilling their brains out, making money hand over fist, corporate profits are through the roof, and CEO's have pension and retirement coffers like the national debt and who's paying for it all?
How much is gas per gallon? OR_----------simply put.
Are we better off price wise now than in the sixties?
I think not!
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:52 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Greetings everyone,
Basically I am silent in the group and do not say much. But this message got my attention due to the fact I feel it is entirely wrong.
The United States and its people better wake up and the below statement tells me this is not happening and the same old hat is going on in the minds of many people. It make little to no difference if you live in the disaster area or not, as it affects all people, not just a few.
Until which time the United States and its peoples decide to stop being oil dependent and supporting countries who could care less about the USA they shall always be in some kind of problem. The problem is, too many people are in denial that the USA cannot become oil independent and go to a alternative energy source. We do not need to depend on other countries and be at their mercy for all history. We need to get at it and stop the crap and put money into alternative energy that will help us, no pollute or poison us.
The question is, what will it take to wake America up, perhaps something worse than this oil spill, which is a total disaster of which many will feel the affects of it for many years. Perhaps if BP lies to the world more about how this happened it will make it better. Living in denial of things is not going to make it better. Ignorance of what is going on is not happiness.
Brazil became oil independent and if they can do it, so can we. People have got to stop making up excuses and then setting in denial of them. It is ridiculous and how many disaster do we need to through, before someone gets smart? Oil is not the savior of the world nor can it bring independence to the USA that is totally dependent on other countries due to past mistakes and stupidity. We owe more money to other countries and have become so dependent on oil we may well never become independent of anything.
So to say we need more oil wells and should drill more is a foolish mistake that will only further the disasters we have already gone through too many times. While nuclear power plants provide clean energy, just exactly how safe are they and do we believe them? I don't.. maybe you do. How many times do you get lied too and continue to believe it? All good questions that no one wants to think about.
These are just my opinions and thoughts on this. I do not point any fingers at anyone nor do I implicate anyone of anything. But the people of the USA better wake up and stop letting other countries put us at their mercy.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:03 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Amen to that Ivan…
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:53 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
The problem with the left is that they want to shut down all low-cost energy solutions and suggest only non-existent or high priced energy as their solution... which would only further bankrupt an already nearly bankrupt America. Viable and affordable "green energy" solutions aren't even on the radar yet... not in the next 10-15 years and possibly much beyond that. By that time, America will have sent another TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of dollars overseas for imported energy supplies. While I certainly do not have a problem with working on "green energy" solutions to America's energy needs, we still need to continue with KNOWN workable energy supplies, such as Oil, Coal and Nuclear UNTIL these "green energy" supplies have proven to be viable and affordable.
The left and the spineless pol's in Washington have stopped so much of our energy solutions for the past 30 years (such as NO nuclear plants built in that time) while California stopped drilling off of it's coast at the same time it's inhabitants and especially the Hollywood-left have BIG CARS, BIG HOUSES AND FLY LOTS OF JET PLANES... while preaching to the rest of us that we should do without... what a bunch of hypocrites... just like those pol's in Washington.
If we stop our own drilling, building and mining now, and then in 10-15 years, the "green energy" solutions are not viable or affordable, America turn into a broken down third world country and TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE!!!
I guess some on the left might think that's a good thing... I DON'T!!!
And I'll say AMEN to myself for that one!!!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:49 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hi Ivan in South Dakota!
For a gentleman that usually stays quite you sure have said a lot!
And all of it true, sorry to say!
Being a bit older than most on the group, I spend a lot more time reflecting on what was, rather than what "is".
The United States has no intention of waking up, now or later. Why? Easy, there's no profit in it! That's a very sorry thing to say about one's own country but true nonetheless. Our values are such that it's pretty much a come day, go day mind set. I've often heard it said if there is one great downfall of the United States, it is in it's own complacency.
We proved this all on our own in the months just prior to World War ll and the attack on Pearl Harbor. Why get involved in world affairs? It's not affecting us, why should we brother? Let remain as an isolated nation. Well it did eventually affect us and the main idea or premise was the same. For Japan, it was raw materials for war along with OIL, for its war machine. After the US embargoed its scrap metal and oil export to Japan, they figured it best to move against us first, before we move on them.
Did we learn? Of course not! We had 9-11, didn't we? Nobody cares, nobody is paying any attention. No money, no profit in it. Is anyone watching the store? No, but they are sure watching the cash register and the American people are as usual, picking up the tab for it. I do believe in our current President but when he said BP paying and picking up the tab, NOT. If they go belly-up and declare bankruptcy, who pays then? Ask those folks in Louisana who are already without lively hoods.
Somewhere I read a very interesting statement: "Those who do not follow and learn from History are doomed to repeat it"!--------I rest my case.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:59 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You are overlooking the fact that we don't use any domestically drilled oil.it is nearly all imported overseas. Last I checked, Obama and folks on the left have pushed for clean coal technologies and some of us have been in favor of nuclear plants (not all of the left is against nuclear plants).
The reality is that over the past 60 years, oil companies have bought up patents for alternative fuel technologies. Do you realize that Henry Ford's first car was designed to run on a battery and that pressure from the oil industry caused GM to pull a very nice and very functional electric car from the market back in the 1990's? I think you need to stop listening to Rush and Beck and do a bit of research on what's really going on Lenny.
Viable and affordable green energy solutions are here now and have been here for quite some time.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:12 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
How can you honestly say, "... the fact that we don't use any domestically drilled oil..."??? If we are only exporting 12.6%, what do you think we are doing with the other 87.4%??? We are using it!!!
Down here in New Orleans area, we have dozens of oil refineries running 24/7 and they are refining LOTS of Louisiana oil, although there are many tankers of crude oil coming up the Mississippi River or more often, for the super-tankers, off-loading their supply at the LOOP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Offshore_Oil_Port.
NAME ONE VIABLE AND AFFORDABLE GREEN ENERGY SOLUTION!!! And I don't mean a windmill or solar energy panel farm powering someone's house or even a small town out in the country. It might work in very limited situations but that IS NOT VIABLE for major metropolitan areas where the MAJORITY of people live.
Or.. are you suggesting that the people who decided to move out into the countryside to enjoy the scenic views and open expanses of land have to give up their little piece of heaven in order to put hundreds or thousands of square miles of windmill farms and solar panel farms in order to supply the folks in New York and L.A.??? Those areas certainly DO NOT have the room to put up green energy solutions. Hell.. the Kennedy's raised a ruckus when a project was proposed to put windmills out in the waters near their compound. NONE OF THE leftist-elitists want to put these ugly windmill farms or solar farms or any other kind of energy solution near them but they sure want to have their BIG HOUSES, BIG LIMOUSINES, BIG PLANES and HELICOPTERS to run off all of the energy produced elsewhere. Like AlGore, they're all a bunch of "Do as I say, not as I do!" type people.
You need to stop listening to Olbermann and Madcow... oops.. Maddow.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:36 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hello Bill,
You are so correct, it is all about money and not the welfare of the people. What a sad world we live in indeed. We are doomed and no one cares unless it pays money.....Quite Biblical don't you think?
You rest your case.....and your case was correct.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:30 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Greetings everyone,
Lenny you talking to the people who have head this all before. 35 years ago when I was in my 30's they said the same thing. We need to continue to drill and build more of this and build more of that until which time we can get alternative energy into force. I say it again, Brazil did it, so can we. 35 years later, where are we, no further ahead than we were in the energy dept than we were 35 years ago. So your theory does not hold water, the USA congress and people have been through this over and over again over the last 40 years or more no doubt.
There is no money for social security, no money for alternative energy, no money for health, no money for this or that, but they can find Billions to clean up a oil mess and find trillions to fight a war. Don't you find that rather odd? The USA is supposedly broke and they are, there is no money for drilling, or anything else or so they would tell you. We do not need to wait another 35 years to have someone say the same things you just said and yet, be no further ahead than we are today.
Tens of thousands of people have already died, in a so called war, of which that money could have been put into alternative energy, but now our so called intelligent govt would say, we have no money for alternative energy, and blah blah blah. I for one am sick of that nonsense. That is all you head the Bush administration say, we are going to do this, we are going to do that, and all they did was get us into a war we did not need, now we are so far in debt we will never get out of it.
Anyway, I am done talking about this, it leads to no where and only causes hard feelings. There is no reason to discuss this any further.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:39 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
What exactly did Brazil do? You seem to imply that they no longer use oil... which is blatantly false. Yes, they had a VERY EXPENSIVE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED ethanol program but they also drilled, drilled, drilled for their own oil supplies off of their own coastlines. Ethanol only makes up 15-25% of the gasoline used in their cars... the other 75-85% comes from OIL. Note the below article is about Brazil's Road To Energy Independence... NOT no longer needing oil. They are producing crude oil at all-time record levels to meet their country's needs. They were also a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP when they started this government funded program... something we aren't YET!!!... although some on the left pray for a socialist dictatorship before they go to sleep every night. I DON'T!!! I pray to God, not the BHO-Messiah.
Here's a snip from a WashingtonPost.com article from a few years ago...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/19/AR2006081900842.html
Brazil's Road to Energy Independence (2006)
"...That experience has been a sometimes painful 30-year evolution, marked by plenty of foresight and numerous false starts. It was born of a uniquely Brazilian political and economic environment, but industry analysts say it nevertheless provides lessons for a fledgling U.S. ethanol program that is already on pace to dethrone Brazil's as the largest in the world.
Subsidies and Mandates
Brazil's military dictatorship launched the national ethanol program in 1975, when about 90 percent of its fuel consumption depended on foreign oil. The government offered subsidies to sugar cane growers and forced service stations in every town of at least 1,500 people to install ethanol pumps. By the early 1980s, almost all new cars sold in Brazil ran on 100 percent ethanol.
But as the decade progressed and the military government was replaced by democracy, oil prices plummeted and the subsidies granted to ethanol producers were eliminated. Sugar processing plants turned from ethanol to edible sugar, creating a shortage of supplies at service stations. The auto industry, which had dedicated itself to ethanol-only cars, stopped producing them almost entirely.
"It was as if from one day to the next, the people who had ethanol cars had a problem on their hands, because no one wanted to buy them," said Henry Joseph Jr., head of the engineering program for Volkswagen of Brazil. "Ethanol cars went all the way from more than 90 percent of sales to less than 1 percent..."
And from this more recent source...
http://www.naturalnews.com/024082_Brazil_ethanol_oil_independence.html
Brazil's Oil Independence May Not Be a Model Worth Emulating
Saturday, September 06, 2008
"Brazil is having another banner year. It has reached energy equilibrium, exporting as much oil as it imports. Its production of domestic oil is at an all time high, as is the production of sugar based ethanol. At the service stations, ethanol is for sale right along side of the gas pumps. Brazil is also the destination of U.S. lawmakers and venture capitalists looking for America's future. As the by products of Brazil's quest for energy independence become known, it may be time to question the zeal with which some American's seek to emulate this model..."
Read the entire article to find out the "by products" of their quest. Here is part of the negative effects of ethanol production...
"...Another part of this capital was used to purchase more than 20 million hectares (1 hectare = 2.47 acres) of Brazilian land, particularly in the mid-west regions and the Brazilian agricultural frontier. The rest went to the Amazon. The result is exploitation of Brazil's abundant natural resources and biodiversity.
This exploitation can be best characterized as agricultural monoculture. Eucalyptus, a plant extremely useful for electricity generation and ethanol, is to be cultured exclusively throughout a section of the country in the south all the way to the border with Uruguay. Thousands of hectares of industrial plantations will be destroyed to create what is in effect a green desert. Sugarcane monoculture for ethanol production and export will also be expanded, including 77 new ethanol processing plants that will be built along four major pipelines..."
Oh yeah Eric... and all that Sugarcane and Eucalyptus farming and all the farming run-off and the taking of the Amazon also hurts fish... a LOT more than oil rigs which are actually homes to thousands of fish.
You seem to want the government to be the solution to all of America's problems when in fact, the government is the cause of most of America's problems... not the solution. All of the things you complain about in your last reply... "no money for social security, ... alternative energy, ... health(care), ... war..." are ALL GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS that you admit are broken.. although I personally think our war machine works quite well! ;-) Well.. who do *you* think has managed to run them all into the ground... that's right.. your so-called all-knowing, all-powerful government. So how can you possibly think the government can do something else right... so-called "green energy"... when nearly everything else they do fails. If it wasn't for the private sector being involved in many other government programs, those programs would likely fail as well.
I don't have any hard feelings. Maybe I'm blessed but I can have an intelligent debate without getting mad or having any hard feelings. I may not invite everyone to a "beer summit at taxpayer expense" afterwards but I won't have any hard feelings. I'll still sleep like a baby tonight... although I heard a comedian once explain how that analogy is so NOT TRUE since babies don't sleep very long between their two hour scream-fests for feeding times. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve S
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:25 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Bill,
The price of oil is not set by the oil companies. It is set by the market and what people are willing to pay for it. By people, I'm not talking you and me, but those who make their living buying and selling oil for others, be they countries or companies. The industrialization of Asia, particularly China, has placed a new strain on the supplies of oil and help cause prices to rise.
While there may have been some deregulation of oil, it is still a heavily regulated business. The real problem is that the environmentalists have made it very difficult for companies to drill in this country, on shore and off shore. Apparently, there is a large reservoir of oil under the upper Midwest of this country just waiting to be tapped. Some think that it could supply this country will all the oil it needs, and more, into the foreseeable future. However, no one has been allowed to tap it to even test the viability of drilling in that area, and to get solid estimates about how much oil there may be there.
Presume a gallon of regular gas cost $0.33 in 1965. Today, that same gallon would cost $2.28 according to http://www.usinflationcalculatior.com/. Using http://www.gasbuddy.com/, it looks like the price of regular around here is about $2.69. So, yes, prices have increased, but not by as much as most people think. (My current car requires premium, so I really had no idea what regular went for.)
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve Szabo
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:42 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Eric,
I hate to burst your bubble, but there is not an electric car made that could get me through one day on one charge of the batteries, though the Tesla comes close. Other alternative fuels are non-starters, where do I purchase them when I need them?
Where is your proof that the oil companies have been buying up patents for alternative fuels?
As far as your assertion that GM had to pull an electric car from the market in the '90's (I do not even recall them marketing one, and I used to be a big car freak), it was probably more to consumer acceptance, or, more correctly, absence of consumer acceptance of the vehicle. Whether it was a design issue, or the fact it was electric, I would not know, since I do not recall such a car.
The fact is that every alternative fuel thus far developed has drawbacks that will prevent, and have prevented them from becoming acceptable to the general public. None of them have proven to be as inexpensive as gasoline (or diesel) or produce the amount of power per given unit as gasoline. Until these factors are overcome, you can go ahead and blame the lack of a viable alternative fuel on the oil companies quashing them (the other popular target are the car companies themselves).
I'll return you to your regularly scheduled aquatic discussions. Don't forget that algae is being investigated as an energy source.
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hi Eric and all,
How very interesting you should bring up the electric car and there was also a car that run on water. About 6 years ago, CNN news brought that subject up and had people call in (remember the call CNN days, they still do it but very limited). My brother in law called them and asked why the car industry took it off the market and what did they have to replace it and why there was a cover up about it, believe it or not, CNN news would not discuss that and hung up on him. What does that tell you?
Big industry runs this world and people have allowed it to happen. They have the people of the USA so frightened and bullied into submission that they I think would agree to anything. We do not live in slavery, but aha, do we? Mental slavery is just as bad as physical slavery.
There is very little Obama can really do, the table has been set long before he came into office and that table may not be able to be corrected if the setting is wrong or if someone more powerful than him does not want it corrected. President Obama is in a very difficult situation and I would not want to walk in his shoes for the simple reason, he is damned if he does and damned if he does not.
The world is a horrible mess and it is not getting better and the powers that be do not care, it goes way beyond most people's wisdom and knowledge in this.
We need to get off this subject matter, it will frighten people and I am sure none of us wish to do that.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of caroline c
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:53 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.. You are the man.. WOW.. and on my fish list. Thank you for saying what I cannot.. may I send this to other friends.. I am on the tea party list.. but, you say it better than anyone.. thank you.. thank you....
caroline in california
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:45 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Feel free to forward... or better yet, just give them my Rants and Raves blog link, which is mostly political rants and news but also includes product reviews, computer tech articles, etc., http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/, as I'm sure this thread will make it to my blog in the next day or two. I'm actually copying/pasting as I type and editing out any names/identifiers other than my own... to protect the innocent and maybe the guilty as well. LOL
Fish... and this is all Amber's fault! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:59 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I don't entertain conspiracy theories for very long so I won't comment on them but... although the "Manchurian Candidate-with-a-twist" does pop into my head from time to time. LOL JUST KIDDDDINNNGGGG!!! LOL
Then there are the major problems of charging all of the electric cars if all fuel powered vehicles were replaced today. The majority of our electricity comes from coal powered electric plants (since we haven't built a nuclear plant in 30 years) so we would be doing away with relatively clean burning gasoline and replace that with burning coal for the electricity... and we'd have to burn a LOT more coal to charge up all the cars. That means "MINE BABY, MINE!" would be the new mantra instead of "DRILL BABY, DRILL!" ;-)
Of course, I'm in favor of doing ALL OF THE ABOVE when it comes to energy but the DOMESTIC low-cost and viable energy sources should continue to grow until we can lessen our dependence on foreign oil and then we can spend those BILLIONS OR TRILLIONS of dollars that OUR GOVERNMENT makes off of the taxes from all that domestic energy to look at longer term so-called "green energy" solutions.
FISH!!! And remember this is all Amber's fault! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
file://steve//
The retail price of gas also includes Local, State and Federal taxes, that in some areas, raise the price by nearly $1.00 a gallon. In Louisiana, taxes increase the price by nearly 60 cents a gallon. That equates to effectively, a 30% tax rate!!! since the gas would only be $2.00 without the 60 cents in taxes so the price of gas is actually MUCH CHEAPER than in 1965 since they didn't have all the taxes.. or hardly any on gas back then. Many other areas are MUCH HIGHER in the amount of taxes they add so that the people don't even realize how much they are paying. We had a retailer down here who put stickers on all of his pumps itemizing the various taxes and fees, per gallon, and he found out that it is AGAINST THE LAW for him to publish this information at the pump but there are websites where folks can find out what they are paying...
Here's a snip from Wikipedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#United_States
United States
Fuel taxes in the United States vary by state. For the first quarter of 2009, the mean state gasoline tax is 27.2 cents per US gallon, plus 18.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 45.6 cents per US gallon (12.0 ¢/L). For diesel, the mean state tax is 26.6 cents per US gallon plus an additional 24.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 50.8 cents US per gallon (13.4 ¢/L).[7] There are also a few states that charge sales tax on top of the excise taxes and the retail price.
More here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States
Here's a history of the Federal Gas Tax and States followed suit with their own taxes later on. We can thank Hoover for the Federal Gas Tax... I wonder if that's where the vacuum cleaner name came from... since they both suck! LOL
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/gastax.cfm
The Revenue Act of 1932 - "... Together, Hoover and Mills formulated the most brutal peacetime revenue bill the country had ever seen. The bill called for a rise in estate taxes from 23 percent to 45 percent, an increase in personal income taxes from 23 percent to 45 percent, a rise in corporation taxes, a sales tax, a drastic modification of capital gains advantages..."
Man, this is starting to look kind of fishy! (I wanted to get fish into the reply without relying on the trusty old "FISH!" ending. LOL)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve S
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:15 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
For most people, the price they see at the pump is the price of the gas.
Thought of taxes does not come into it at all. I do not know if the federal tax has risen since 1965, stayed the same or declined, but most states have raised their taxes on the fuel since then. It is still amazing to most people that they are only paying a slightly higher amount for gas than they did when they were younger.
Do keep in mind that the American public, in general, is completely unaware of many things that affect their daily lives, one of the reasons the politicians can hoodwink them nearly any time. Most have no idea how the market works, that oil companies have very little effect on pricing, much as is the case of farmers, who get a very small proportion of each dollar spent on food for their hard work in producing it.
I probably should look up some of the old ads for fish I have in various catalogues and magazines hanging around and do the same analysis on them to see what the difference in price is today from back then.
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:45 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I think people need to be frightened so maybe they will actually take action. Logic and reason hasn’t worked.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:14 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Americans are frightened at record numbers! Haven't you been hearing all the GREAT news about the Tea Party Activists???
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:15 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
OK I have said enough about this, it is getting mean now and there is no reason for that. you believe what you wish, I could care less. These were my opinions and that is all, I will not contribute to any further chatter on this as it will go on and on and on and get no where, just like the energy crisis. When you become dependent on another, that other becomes a parasite upon you and that is what the USA has allowed other countries to do to us, make us dependent on them. But you believe what you wish and in 35 years if I am still alive, I will come back and say, I told you so. All this nonsense was said 40 years ago and we are no further now then we were then. Enough said...
You all have a good day
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:12 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
It seems we actually agree that America should be doing everything possible to become energy independent. There are still PLENTY of proven oil and coal reserves that haven't been touched yet so those should be harvested while we start building LOTS of nuclear plants and working on other so-called "green energy" sources like wind and solar to find out if they are viable before investing government (aka taxpayer) money into them. If they are viable, the private sector and local utilities will gladly jump on the bandwagon. If they aren't viable, let the private sector and investors take the risk, not the taxpayers... we're paying for enough government boondoggles already!!!
Further, have you ever thought about what might happen to the "wind supply" or wind patterns when we put up thousands of those big wind turbines all over the open plains of America? In the long run, they could disrupt the wind patterns and ultimately affect weather patterns. And all of them solar collectors are HUGE sources of heat that could also affect weather patterns much like the heat generated by the "concrete jungles" (cities) affect the local weather in their areas with more occurrences of afternoon thunder showers. There are global-warming scientists (that's almost an oxymoron.. lol) studying these possibilities already. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/302/5651/1719
Maybe you will be the lucky one and not be around to see the man-made disasters caused by all these wind turbines and solar cell farms. I'll still be around in 35 years to see what happens... if America lasts that long... or will it be Amerika by then. ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:36 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Eric said, among other things...
"The car that was pulled was pretty popular amongst those who were driving it. They made a pretty huge deal over GM taking the car back. Check out he movie.I think I have the title right."Who killed the electric car". ( http://ev1.org/chevron.htm )"
Lenny says...
This car simply was not viable. If not for HUGE government subsidies (1.25 BILLION DOLLARS) and State mandates (mainly Kalifornia), these cars would not have been built and people would not have been able to afford them, which is why GM had to take them back. Some folks complained that they weren't given the option to buy their cars at the end of their three year leases but none of them were willing to pay the $80,000 to $100,000 price tag either... and GM didn't want to have to carry the price tag of producing parts for the few remaining cars... not to mention the potential liability issues. Then when you factor in the cost of electricity and the amount of COAL that has to be burned to charge up these electric cars, they create just as much pollution as gas powered cars. They simply were not a viable alternative to gas powered vehicles. Even todays hybrid vehicles are being subsidized by the government or their prices would not be viable either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
"While customer reaction to the EV1 was positive, GM believed that electric cars occupied an unprofitable niche of the automobile market as they were only able to lease 800 units in face of production costs of US$1 billion over four years.[9]...
...GM based the lease payments for the EV1 on an initial vehicle price of US$33,995.[5] Lease payments ranged from around $299 to $574 per month, depending on the availability of state rebates.[citation needed] Since GM did not offer consumers the option to purchase at the end of the lease, the car's residual value was never established, making it impossible to determine the actual full purchase price or replacement value. One industry official said that each EV1 cost the company about US$80,000, including research, development and other associated costs;[60] other estimates placed the vehicle's actual cost as high as $100,000.[5] GM stated the cost of the EV1 program at slightly less than $500 million before marketing and sales costs, and over $1 billion in total; a portion of this cost was defrayed by the Clinton Administration's $1.25 billion Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV) program..."
I'm not going to address all the other links since many of them are also based on conspiracy theories.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:26 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
That's fear mongering with lies and mistruths and getting people to vote against their own self interests by corporatist politicians and public figures. People need to see the truth and be fearful of the path their self imposed state of stupidity is leading us..
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
It can also be very easily achievable by installing wither solar panels or using wind turbines on site and not even using any of the energy off of the grid to accomplish this.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:57 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You still don't accept the FACT that without government subsidies, solar panels and wind turbines are not viable. 99% of the people that are putting these things on their homes/properties are ONLY doing it due to HUGE tax credits or outright subsidies... not withstanding the companies making these things are also getting tax credits or outright subsidies on the production end. Take away the subsidies and they aren't viable. The payback would be hundreds of years instead of the 10-20 year payback for the subsidized products. If we subsidize everybody getting a wind turbine and solar farm on their rooftop, while you may not be paying your electric company, you'll be paying FAR MORE due to government overspending, deficit spending and the interest costs on our soon to be $20 TRILLION national debt.
My monthly electric bill runs around $100.00 a month. My share of the national debt is around $100,000.00. I can pay a lot of electric bills with that $100K.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:33 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Disrupt the wind patterns.ok.now that was funny Lenny...where did you pull that out of (besides a certain orifice? hehehe)
The difference in the concrete jungle is that the energy doesn't go anywhere and just gets transferred back into the atmosphere creating temperature anomalies. With solar, it gets transferred into electricity or used to heat water like your water heater. Remember the Law of Conservation of Energy.energy is neither gained nor destroyed.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I think your "certain orifice" (quoting you) also applies to much of what you've said. I just didn't go there with you... but now that you've brought it up. ;-)
I didn't make it up. There are actually left-leaning scientists using government grant money to study this potential wind anomaly. For the folks downwind of these massive wind turbine farms, instead of a normal breeze, the wind will have been disrupted and disturbed by hundreds or thousands of HUGE spinning fan blades. The wind pattern coming off of a wind turbine comes off in a MUCH different pattern than the wind going into the wind turbine. This is why they can't have them too close together. I don't know all of the aeronautical terms but on a different scale, it's the same thing that can happen when one jet flies into the jet stream of another jet and the wind is so disturbed that it causes the following jet's engines to have MAJOR problems. The same thing happens to one boat following another boat with the water being disturbed by the first boats propellers. I think it's called cavitation when it happens to boats.
And don't forget all of the birds that are killed by these wind turbines every year.
"The latest independent reports estimate the number of birds killed by wind turbines at about 100,000 per year. That's according to a 2007 report from the National Research Council called "Environmental Impacts of Wind-Energy Projects.
The American Bird Conservancy estimated in 2003 that between 10,000 and 40,000 birds were killed each year at wind farms across the country, about 80 percent of which were songbirds and 10 percent birds of prey. 'With the increased capacity over the last seven years, we now estimate that 100,000 – 300,000 birds are killed by wind turbines each year,' said Conservancy spokesman Robert Johns."
Of course, if I lived near a wind turbine farm, I'd just send Granny Clampet out to collect me some road-kill (or would that be fan-kill???) every day for some good road-kill stew! Hopefully, most of the feathers got knocked off in the process so I have less plucking to do. LOL
As far as your comment that the heat is used to heat water, the last I've seen of the BIG solar panel farms, there's not a lot of plumbing running off of them to nearby home's hot water heaters. Those farms collect LOTS OF HEAT and there are many ways that they are trying to solve the HEAT issue... but what about the long term effects of having all of this heat build up in areas that didn't have it in the past?
Further, how will the capture of all of this sunlight and heat affect the earth. Right now, the sun and heat from the sun goes into the earth's ecology but if the world starts putting MASSIVE solar panel farms everywhere there is now farmland or other open space, the sun will not be hitting the earth in those areas, likely affecting the ecology in those areas.
Whether it's oil, coal, nuclear, wind, sun or any other source of energy, the old "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature" saying is still applicable and should not be dismissed... as is "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"... so for those folks who think there is a so-called "green energy" solution, who knows what kind of environmental damage will be caused by these so-called "green energy" concepts. I'm not saying we shouldn't explore other options, but don't go blindly rushing into these unknown concepts when they start to be used on a larger scale.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:29 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And I should add this snip from the Wall Street Journal...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574376543308399048.html
Windmills Are Killing Our Birds (2009)
On Aug. 13, ExxonMobil pleaded guilty in federal court to killing 85 birds that had come into contact with crude oil or other pollutants in uncovered tanks or waste-water facilities on its properties. The birds were protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which dates back to 1918. The company agreed to pay $600,000 in fines and fees.
ExxonMobil is hardly alone in running afoul of this law. Over the past two decades, federal officials have brought hundreds of similar cases against energy companies. In July, for example, the Oregon-based electric utility PacifiCorp paid $1.4 million in fines and restitution for killing 232 eagles in Wyoming over the past two years. The birds were electrocuted by poorly-designed power lines.
Yet there is one group of energy producers that are not being prosecuted for killing birds: wind-power companies. And wind-powered turbines are killing a vast number of birds every year.
A July 2008 study of the wind farm at Altamont Pass, Calif., estimated that its turbines kill an average of 80 golden eagles per year. The study, funded by the Alameda County Community Development Agency, also estimated that about 10,000 birds—nearly all protected by the migratory bird act—are being whacked every year at Altamont...
...But that said, the carnage there likely represents only a fraction of the number of birds killed by windmills. Michael Fry of the American Bird Conservancy estimates that U.S. wind turbines kill between 75,000 and 275,000 birds per year. Yet the Justice Department is not bringing cases against wind companies.
"Somebody has given the wind industry a get-out-of-jail-free card," Mr. Fry told me. "If there were even one prosecution," he added, the wind industry would be forced to take the issue seriously.
(END SNIP)
Is this because the mostly spineless Republican pol's are afraid to stand up to the mostly hypocrite Democrat pol's... or is it because both sides of the aisle in Washington get their bribes from the energy companies and it's ONLY politically correct to attack oil companies and standard electric companies and that Republican pol's don't like attacking any big business and Democrat pol's dare not attack so-called "green energy" companies or fear the wrath of the tree-huggers surrounding their homes and picketing their offices.
ExxonMobile got hit with $600K in fines for 85 birds, which averages over $7,000 per bird, so the windmill farm industry should be paying over $700 MILLION each year based on the average figure of 100,000 birds a year... or as much as $1.9 TRILLION based on 275,000 birds. Now, factor those fines into the cost of the electricity they are producing and all of a sudden, their prices aren't so affordable.
The above shows the PURE HYPOCRISY of the so-called "green energy" movement. They can't play on a level playing field and wouldn't exist without LOTS OF GOVERNMENT-TO-CORPORATE WELFARE going to BIG GREEN ENERGY BUSINESSES. How can the left possibly like all that corporate welfare? Oh yeah... they love Government-To-Corporate Welfare when it's going to them and their businesses or non-profit corporations like Acorn.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:14 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
A couple of panels and a single wind turbine will create enough for one house (if you are ever up in the Chicago area Lenny.I'd love to show you my neighbor's house. The have a turbine and 2 solar panels and they make money off of the excess electricity they don't use by selling it to ComEd).they do already have working solar and wind farms that contribute a lot of energy to the grid. They are working on building even more in the SW.
The farms don't have to be right in the city, just like the electrical generation plants do not have to be right in the city. In LA, there are a lot of open desert areas that can be used quite efficiently and even with little harm to the environment. You can put turbine farms offshore. They can even make use to tidal generators on the coasts. In big cities, they can make turbines that can be attached to the tops of buildings. If you have ever been in a big city, you would know that it is pretty windy.even on a calm day, when you get on top of a sky scraper. Even if it doesn't reduce fossil fuel use 100%, it does reduce it considerably.
As far as this leftist elitist BS red herring (great way to work in a fish hehehe). here's an infesting article for you to peruse. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/GlobalWarming/story?id=2906888&page=1
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:35 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Ummmm... you're losing your street-cred fast here. I can promise you that there are NO "desert areas" in Louisiana... lots of good desserts... but absolutely NO deserts.
I think I've addressed the rest of your assertions.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:58 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Sure Lenny.People have been using solar and wind for a lot longer than there have been tax credits.next piece of conservative BS?
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:44 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
ALL of the modern and recent solar and wind technology is HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED by government programs... from studies being done by many universities to R & D at many corporations to the actual cost of production and consumer purchase of these so-called "green energy" products. Hell, BHO even has the subsidies and tax credits for caulking windows now. Folks should caulk their own damned windows without expecting other taxpayers to subsidize them.
Thanks for recognizing my conservatism! I'll sleep much better tonight!
I don't know what Barbara Streisand (your comment about BS) has to do with my conservatism though.. she's a typical left-wing liberal hypocrite.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:56 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
In otherwords you really can't address the other links.typical conservative cop put when faced with facts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:38 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
A bunch of URL's, without any hint as to what might be enclosed in them, are NOT facts.
At least provide a snip of what you are hinting at or relying on in the link you provide... or to at least prove you've actually read the content before I'm going to open the link and read through and reply to a possibly LONG page of opinion or conspiracy theories.
As you've seen, when I reply with my "facts", I include multiple sources and usually reliable or well referenced sources, not just likely opinion pages. If every website was a fact, then you'd be a good conservative by reading my other blog since according to you, it's all fact and not opinion.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:43 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Didn't notice the link on the bottom of the page in reference to wind turbines. http://www.currykerlinger.com/studies.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:44 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I provide you links and references to the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the NY Times, the National Research Council and the American Bird Conservancy, etc.... and you provide a link to a currykerlinger.com ... WTF is a currykerlinger.com? Is he any relation to curlylarrymoe.com? LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:44 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Didn't realize you meant Louisiana.thought you meant Los Angeles since you were talking about cities like New York.Louisiana isn't a city Lenny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:13 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You need to re-read what you're replying to. This entire discussion started with me saying that I'm starting up a Gulf Of Mexico biotope tank with oil floating on the top, dead fish, birds and turtles floating on top and a little burning oil well.... as a joke about what's happening "down here", since I live "down here" in Louisiana. I've made countless references to me living down here dozens of times in this thread and hundreds... no, make that thousands of times in this forum. Your reply saying there were "deserts in LA" was a direct reply to my reply which included this SECOND paragraph:
"Down here in the New Orleans area, we have dozens of oil refineries running 24/7 and they are refining LOTS of Louisiana oil, although there are many tankers of crude oil coming up the Mississippi River or more often, for the super-tankers, off-loading their supply at the LOOP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Offshore_Oil_Port."
Then in paragraph three, I made reference to "New York and L.A." (note the periods following the L and the A, which stands for Los Angeles, the city, since LA stands for Louisiana). Of course, I didn't say New York City, which is what I was referring to when you look at the context of that paragraph talking about limited land area, so maybe my failure to include the word "City" or not refer to New York as N.Y. was confusing to you since New York is also the State... but even in your below reply, you say "were talking about cities like New York" so you know I was talking about the city of New York and the obvious city of L.A... so now I'm confused about how you could have been confused.
Your "deserts in LA" comment did not include periods so you were obviously referring to Louisiana, not Los Angeles.... right? But since we both know I was talking about cities, by your own admission noted above, there are also NO deserts in the City of L.A. either... or did you mean to type CA as in California or did you mean the County of Los Angeles, which is not referred to as "L.A." very often, if at all, and if you did a poll of what "L.A." stands for, you'll get a high percentage, of those that have a clue, saying it means Los Angeles? Of course, if you poll the people in L.A., such as Jay Leno does on the JayWalking segments, most of them might answer "Lunar Acclipse"... but if they guessed "Lost Angels", at least they'd be close. LMAO
Just to make sure I was right about NO deserts in L.A. either, I did a search on the Wikipedia page for the City of Los Angeles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles and there was only one hit for the word "desert" and it was to a "Further Reading" link to a book called "Cadillac Desert", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:32 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Lets see.Exxon was fines because it killed birds as a result of their negligence that caused a major oil spill. The electric company was fined because birds died as a result of faulty wires. The drop in the bucket that comes from turbines is not due to negligence. Nice try by spouting from yet another conservative mouth piece.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:43 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
There you go again... not reading my well referenced and quoted material.
ExxonMobil was fined due to some birds landing in their "uncovered tanks" and/or "waste water facilities", not for an oil spill.
The electric company, PacifiCorp, was fined for allegedly having "poorly designed lines", which I guess could be extrapolated to mean faulty but the power lines worked as intended, providing power to the people so they weren't faulty... just possibly poorly designed according to some leftist Judge in Kalifornia, which we all know has some of the most whacked out leftist Judges in the country and especially on the Federal 9th Circuit Court Of Appeals... whose decisions are the most overturned decisions of any circuit in America.
I don't know how you can say "The drop in the bucket that comes from turbines..." when ExxonMobil was fined for 85 birds and Pacificorp was fined for 232 birds AND wind turbines kill between 75,000 and 275,000 birds a year.... according to the American Bird Conservancy, which I can assure you is NOT a conservative mouth piece. If anything, it's a bleeding heart bird-hugging group. Maybe you misunderstood their website title, "American Bird Conservancy: Bird Conservation In The Americas" http://www.abcbirds.org/. Conservation is NOT the same as Conservative or Conservatism... but it's an interesting comparison... the Bird Conservancy wants to conserve or save bird lives in America and Conservatives want to conserve our tax dollars and save innocent human lives in America.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And you did specify Los Angeles."the folks in New York and L.A.???" Never saw Louisiana abbreviated as L.A. only as LA. I will assume that was a typo on your part.
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:19 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
See my reply, just sent a moment ago.
I NEVER used "L.A." as an abbreviation for Louisiana... except for maybe in your mind... but you did use LA as an abbreviation for Los Angeles, in your own words.
Your confusion is getting the best of you now. You better get some sleep now!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
World Flag Counter added April 14, 2010 and U.S. State's Flag Counter added April 22, 2010
World Flag Counter added April 14, 2010 so the numbers are artificially low by over 10,000 hits (pageviews) based on Google's Adsense numbers. I'm only showing the top 60 countries but if you want to see the full list, open the FlagCounter in a new tab/window and you can then navigate around to see a Map, List, etc. The "Visitors" number is based on unique visitors so this counter does not re-count the same person who visits again.
Subscribe To
Posts
All Comments
