-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber B
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:47 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Is it just me or is the group really quiet lately? I haven't gotten any posts and I even sent one myself ;) lol.
Amber
And my first reply that led to this discussion and debate...
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:54 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Have you checked your deodorant and mouthwash lately?
Just kidddddiiinnnnggggg!!! LOL
If you look at the group's home page http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/, down near the bottom where there is the Message History table, you'll see that messages always slow down in May, June, July, August. I think this is due to summer time and more kids being home and taking up parents time and computer time, as well as vacations, etc. Granted, messages are much slower this year than in past years. It could be related to the global economy and maybe not as many folks getting into the hobby right now.
I'm thinking about setting up a new low cost salt water tank right now... a Gulf Of Mexico biotope.... some dead fish, turtles and birds floating on top of some crude oil in a salt water tank. At least it's low maintenance! ;-) LOL
Or, after all that, maybe it is your deodorant and mouthwash! LOL
Oh yeah... fish!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber B
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:22 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Gosh that tanks gonna smell to high heaven Lenny ;) lol.
I think I remembered to wear deodorant... hey wait you guys can't smell me through email ;) LOL
Amber
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:41 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I forgot to mention that I'm going to have a little burning oil well on the surface of my "Gulf Of Mexico biotope tank" so the smoke should mask the smell of the dead critters. LOL
While I joke about this... and since I live down here I can joke about it... I actually believe the LSM (Lame Stream Media) is paying far too much attention to the relatively few oil covered birds, turtles, marshes and beaches and NOT nearly enough attention to the 11 workers who died in the accident and the hundreds, even thousands of Americans who will DIE HORRIBLE DEATHS in the coming months and years due to "necessarily skyrocket(ing)" crude oil prices... when they can't afford to heat their homes in the winter and cool their homes in the summer. IT'S TIME NOW, MORE THAN EVER, TO DRILL BABY, DRILL (Oil and Gas wells); BUILD BABY, BUILD (Nuclear Plants); MINE BABY, MINE (Coal) and anything else that is proven to produce low cost energy instead of sending TRILLIONS of more American dollars to foreign countries.
Oops.. sorry for the semi-political rant but it does have to do with the environment too! I do most of my political rants on my other blog... http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/ and my four articles about my thoughts on the BP Oil Spill are here... http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/search/label/BP%20Oil%20Spill
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
And NOW, the JUICY debate and discussion starts...
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:03 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Well.drill, baby, drill, without safety first is what got us into this (Thanks Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney). Do you realize that this has nothing to do with the cost of crude prices as this rig was still years out from actual production. Most of our domestically produces oil is actually exported, so no matter how much you chant drill, baby, drill, it's not going to help us get off foreign oil. What we need to do is work on alternative energy like ethanol and biodiesel from environmentally and renewable sources (can you say hemp and switch grass as well as from agro waste?). The only thing domestic drilling does is make the oil companies richer and the planet less safe.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:55 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And while America sits on our hands, contemplating "green energy" concepts...
China is building 500 coal powered electric plants over the next ten years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6769743.stm (2007) - "China is now building about two power stations every week, the top climate change official at the UK Foreign Office, John Ashton, has said."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/world/asia/11coal.html (2009) - "TIANJIN, China — China’s frenetic construction of coal-fired power plants has raised worries around the world about the effect on climate change. China now uses more coal than the United States, Europe and Japan combined, making it the world’s largest emitter of gases that are warming the planet."
http://windfarms.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/china-building-500-coal-plants/ (2009) - "At the two minute mark of the video below, from Australia, we learn that China is building 500 coal plants over the next ten years — One new power plant every four days.
China is exempt from KYOTO
Think About it!
In Ontario, Canada, the govt. is filling rural Ont. with wind turbines under the guise of saving the environment and closing our four coal plants. (wind has never been responsible for the closure of any fossil fuel plant) We are going to close four coal plants at the same time China builds one every four days.
Think About it!
In the USA, Obama said he will bankrupt the coal plants.
Think About it.
The Scam is Huge"
France gets 77% of their electricity from nuclear power plants. America gets less than 20%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_by_country
Unless or until ALL countries are going to go green and green energy is affordable... right now it is subsidized by huge margins by government dollars... meaning taxpayer dollars... so even the folks who think they are buying this so-called lower-priced-due-to-subsidies green energy, the energy still costs a LOT more and other people are paying for it... one day, when we finally start to balance our federal budget and have to start paying off the ridiculous national debt.... but back to the point, unless or until ALL countries are going to go green, it's STUPID for America to KILL AMERICAN'S due to high energy prices while other countries are burning fossil fuels at rates America hasn't ever come close to.
As far as your comment about "most" domestic oil being exported, that is simply NOT TRUE that "most" oil is exported, it's less than 15% (see *)... and further, it doesn't matter if it was "most" since crude oil prices are based on global supply and demand pricing. What matters is increasing the supply considerably which will drive down the prices to the consumers... and that will also punish the oil companies that you feel are making too much money... not withstanding that oil companies make just a few pennies a gallon after they find the oil, drill for the oil, transport the oil, refine the oil and then deliver the oil and gas to consumers... and the government is taking TEN TO TWENTY TIMES MORE in taxes/fees for doing nothing. Increasing the supply will actually drive down oil company profits and drive up the taxes/fees to the government so it will be a win-win situation as far as most libs are concerned. ;-)
* - http://import-export.suite101.com/article.cfm/leading_oil_export_countries (2008) (America is number 18 on the list of exporters) - "While the United States exports only 12.6% of its own domestically produced oil, the top 10 oil export countries generate over half of global oil export shipments...
Countries Exporting Less Than 80% of Their Oil Production
America uses most of the fuel that it drills at home, as shown by the low percentage for exported U.S. oil.
1. United States … 12.6% of domestic oil production was exported
2. Russia … 51.5%
3. Mexico … 59.9%
4. Iran … 60.7%
5. Canada … 73.5%
6. Kazakhstan … 74.7%
7. Libya … 77.1%
8. Venezuela … 78.6%
9. Iraq … 79.1%.
The planet will be safe no matter what man does to it. God knew we would be a bunch of screw-ups and planned accordingly! Why else would He have created oil eating bacteria??? One of my blog articles has a chart of the worst oil spills over the past 30 years and the Gulf Of Mexico actually had one in 1979 that was TEN TIMES WORSE than the BP oil spill and as far as I can tell, we are all still here down on the Gulf... at least I am. After America ran Saddam out of Kuwait in 91-92, Saddam's forces destroyed thousands of rigs and refineries which dumped A HUNDRED TIMES more oil into their waters and as far as I know, they're still alive over there too. Nature is amazingly resourceful in the way it rebounds from both natural and man-made disasters.
UH OH... I feel another blog article coming on... but for my other blog, not my fish blog. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Dax G
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:23 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
you forgot to mention the winbdmills to create power.
Daniel
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:10 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
In order to have enough electricity from wind, to replace the amount of energy we get from oil and coal, we'd have to have half the country covered in windmill farms and the tree-huggers don't want that either. Even T. Boone Pickens gave up on his concept of building thousands of windmills across the mid-west once he looked into it more. The ONLY reason wind turbines are supposedly cost effective today is because of HUGE taxpayer subsidies and tax credits (OMG.. tax credits = Corporate Welfare.. lol).
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/22/news/economy/pickens_wind/index.htm (2008) - "...Government regulations - Another impediment to large-scale wind generation is a lack of turbines and infrastructure, said Hamilton. Companies like General Electric (GE, Fortune 500), India's Suzlon and Spain's Gamesa, which make wind turbines, aren't building enough of those turbines to meet demand because government tax credits offered to energy producers expire every two years. These tax credits are a big incentive for people to invest in wind energy - Pickens would net $60 million a year, according to Jefferies' Fremont, and that is likely why he's currently pitching his plan to lawmakers..."
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:16 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
All of this is Amber's fault for being bored and not getting enough messages from the group.
LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Amber
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:34 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
yes! wait... what? lol
Amber
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:08 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I was wondering how you were making out down there with this mess.
Drill? Sorry Len, I have serious doubts. When they opted to de-regulate back in the late 60's and 70's they jammed it down our throats that in the long run here in the US ----------------"How we would be paying much less for gas and home heating oil in the 90's and 2000's".
They are drilling their brains out, making money hand over fist, corporate profits are through the roof, and CEO's have pension and retirement coffers like the national debt and who's paying for it all?
How much is gas per gallon? OR_----------simply put.
Are we better off price wise now than in the sixties?
I think not!
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:52 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Greetings everyone,
Basically I am silent in the group and do not say much. But this message got my attention due to the fact I feel it is entirely wrong.
The United States and its people better wake up and the below statement tells me this is not happening and the same old hat is going on in the minds of many people. It make little to no difference if you live in the disaster area or not, as it affects all people, not just a few.
Until which time the United States and its peoples decide to stop being oil dependent and supporting countries who could care less about the USA they shall always be in some kind of problem. The problem is, too many people are in denial that the USA cannot become oil independent and go to a alternative energy source. We do not need to depend on other countries and be at their mercy for all history. We need to get at it and stop the crap and put money into alternative energy that will help us, no pollute or poison us.
The question is, what will it take to wake America up, perhaps something worse than this oil spill, which is a total disaster of which many will feel the affects of it for many years. Perhaps if BP lies to the world more about how this happened it will make it better. Living in denial of things is not going to make it better. Ignorance of what is going on is not happiness.
Brazil became oil independent and if they can do it, so can we. People have got to stop making up excuses and then setting in denial of them. It is ridiculous and how many disaster do we need to through, before someone gets smart? Oil is not the savior of the world nor can it bring independence to the USA that is totally dependent on other countries due to past mistakes and stupidity. We owe more money to other countries and have become so dependent on oil we may well never become independent of anything.
So to say we need more oil wells and should drill more is a foolish mistake that will only further the disasters we have already gone through too many times. While nuclear power plants provide clean energy, just exactly how safe are they and do we believe them? I don't.. maybe you do. How many times do you get lied too and continue to believe it? All good questions that no one wants to think about.
These are just my opinions and thoughts on this. I do not point any fingers at anyone nor do I implicate anyone of anything. But the people of the USA better wake up and stop letting other countries put us at their mercy.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:03 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Amen to that Ivan…
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:53 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
The problem with the left is that they want to shut down all low-cost energy solutions and suggest only non-existent or high priced energy as their solution... which would only further bankrupt an already nearly bankrupt America. Viable and affordable "green energy" solutions aren't even on the radar yet... not in the next 10-15 years and possibly much beyond that. By that time, America will have sent another TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of dollars overseas for imported energy supplies. While I certainly do not have a problem with working on "green energy" solutions to America's energy needs, we still need to continue with KNOWN workable energy supplies, such as Oil, Coal and Nuclear UNTIL these "green energy" supplies have proven to be viable and affordable.
The left and the spineless pol's in Washington have stopped so much of our energy solutions for the past 30 years (such as NO nuclear plants built in that time) while California stopped drilling off of it's coast at the same time it's inhabitants and especially the Hollywood-left have BIG CARS, BIG HOUSES AND FLY LOTS OF JET PLANES... while preaching to the rest of us that we should do without... what a bunch of hypocrites... just like those pol's in Washington.
If we stop our own drilling, building and mining now, and then in 10-15 years, the "green energy" solutions are not viable or affordable, America turn into a broken down third world country and TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE!!!
I guess some on the left might think that's a good thing... I DON'T!!!
And I'll say AMEN to myself for that one!!!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:49 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hi Ivan in South Dakota!
For a gentleman that usually stays quite you sure have said a lot!
And all of it true, sorry to say!
Being a bit older than most on the group, I spend a lot more time reflecting on what was, rather than what "is".
The United States has no intention of waking up, now or later. Why? Easy, there's no profit in it! That's a very sorry thing to say about one's own country but true nonetheless. Our values are such that it's pretty much a come day, go day mind set. I've often heard it said if there is one great downfall of the United States, it is in it's own complacency.
We proved this all on our own in the months just prior to World War ll and the attack on Pearl Harbor. Why get involved in world affairs? It's not affecting us, why should we brother? Let remain as an isolated nation. Well it did eventually affect us and the main idea or premise was the same. For Japan, it was raw materials for war along with OIL, for its war machine. After the US embargoed its scrap metal and oil export to Japan, they figured it best to move against us first, before we move on them.
Did we learn? Of course not! We had 9-11, didn't we? Nobody cares, nobody is paying any attention. No money, no profit in it. Is anyone watching the store? No, but they are sure watching the cash register and the American people are as usual, picking up the tab for it. I do believe in our current President but when he said BP paying and picking up the tab, NOT. If they go belly-up and declare bankruptcy, who pays then? Ask those folks in Louisana who are already without lively hoods.
Somewhere I read a very interesting statement: "Those who do not follow and learn from History are doomed to repeat it"!--------I rest my case.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:59 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You are overlooking the fact that we don't use any domestically drilled oil.it is nearly all imported overseas. Last I checked, Obama and folks on the left have pushed for clean coal technologies and some of us have been in favor of nuclear plants (not all of the left is against nuclear plants).
The reality is that over the past 60 years, oil companies have bought up patents for alternative fuel technologies. Do you realize that Henry Ford's first car was designed to run on a battery and that pressure from the oil industry caused GM to pull a very nice and very functional electric car from the market back in the 1990's? I think you need to stop listening to Rush and Beck and do a bit of research on what's really going on Lenny.
Viable and affordable green energy solutions are here now and have been here for quite some time.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:12 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
How can you honestly say, "... the fact that we don't use any domestically drilled oil..."??? If we are only exporting 12.6%, what do you think we are doing with the other 87.4%??? We are using it!!!
Down here in New Orleans area, we have dozens of oil refineries running 24/7 and they are refining LOTS of Louisiana oil, although there are many tankers of crude oil coming up the Mississippi River or more often, for the super-tankers, off-loading their supply at the LOOP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Offshore_Oil_Port.
NAME ONE VIABLE AND AFFORDABLE GREEN ENERGY SOLUTION!!! And I don't mean a windmill or solar energy panel farm powering someone's house or even a small town out in the country. It might work in very limited situations but that IS NOT VIABLE for major metropolitan areas where the MAJORITY of people live.
Or.. are you suggesting that the people who decided to move out into the countryside to enjoy the scenic views and open expanses of land have to give up their little piece of heaven in order to put hundreds or thousands of square miles of windmill farms and solar panel farms in order to supply the folks in New York and L.A.??? Those areas certainly DO NOT have the room to put up green energy solutions. Hell.. the Kennedy's raised a ruckus when a project was proposed to put windmills out in the waters near their compound. NONE OF THE leftist-elitists want to put these ugly windmill farms or solar farms or any other kind of energy solution near them but they sure want to have their BIG HOUSES, BIG LIMOUSINES, BIG PLANES and HELICOPTERS to run off all of the energy produced elsewhere. Like AlGore, they're all a bunch of "Do as I say, not as I do!" type people.
You need to stop listening to Olbermann and Madcow... oops.. Maddow.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:36 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hello Bill,
You are so correct, it is all about money and not the welfare of the people. What a sad world we live in indeed. We are doomed and no one cares unless it pays money.....Quite Biblical don't you think?
You rest your case.....and your case was correct.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:30 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Greetings everyone,
Lenny you talking to the people who have head this all before. 35 years ago when I was in my 30's they said the same thing. We need to continue to drill and build more of this and build more of that until which time we can get alternative energy into force. I say it again, Brazil did it, so can we. 35 years later, where are we, no further ahead than we were in the energy dept than we were 35 years ago. So your theory does not hold water, the USA congress and people have been through this over and over again over the last 40 years or more no doubt.
There is no money for social security, no money for alternative energy, no money for health, no money for this or that, but they can find Billions to clean up a oil mess and find trillions to fight a war. Don't you find that rather odd? The USA is supposedly broke and they are, there is no money for drilling, or anything else or so they would tell you. We do not need to wait another 35 years to have someone say the same things you just said and yet, be no further ahead than we are today.
Tens of thousands of people have already died, in a so called war, of which that money could have been put into alternative energy, but now our so called intelligent govt would say, we have no money for alternative energy, and blah blah blah. I for one am sick of that nonsense. That is all you head the Bush administration say, we are going to do this, we are going to do that, and all they did was get us into a war we did not need, now we are so far in debt we will never get out of it.
Anyway, I am done talking about this, it leads to no where and only causes hard feelings. There is no reason to discuss this any further.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:39 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
What exactly did Brazil do? You seem to imply that they no longer use oil... which is blatantly false. Yes, they had a VERY EXPENSIVE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED ethanol program but they also drilled, drilled, drilled for their own oil supplies off of their own coastlines. Ethanol only makes up 15-25% of the gasoline used in their cars... the other 75-85% comes from OIL. Note the below article is about Brazil's Road To Energy Independence... NOT no longer needing oil. They are producing crude oil at all-time record levels to meet their country's needs. They were also a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP when they started this government funded program... something we aren't YET!!!... although some on the left pray for a socialist dictatorship before they go to sleep every night. I DON'T!!! I pray to God, not the BHO-Messiah.
Here's a snip from a WashingtonPost.com article from a few years ago...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/19/AR2006081900842.html
Brazil's Road to Energy Independence (2006)
"...That experience has been a sometimes painful 30-year evolution, marked by plenty of foresight and numerous false starts. It was born of a uniquely Brazilian political and economic environment, but industry analysts say it nevertheless provides lessons for a fledgling U.S. ethanol program that is already on pace to dethrone Brazil's as the largest in the world.
Subsidies and Mandates
Brazil's military dictatorship launched the national ethanol program in 1975, when about 90 percent of its fuel consumption depended on foreign oil. The government offered subsidies to sugar cane growers and forced service stations in every town of at least 1,500 people to install ethanol pumps. By the early 1980s, almost all new cars sold in Brazil ran on 100 percent ethanol.
But as the decade progressed and the military government was replaced by democracy, oil prices plummeted and the subsidies granted to ethanol producers were eliminated. Sugar processing plants turned from ethanol to edible sugar, creating a shortage of supplies at service stations. The auto industry, which had dedicated itself to ethanol-only cars, stopped producing them almost entirely.
"It was as if from one day to the next, the people who had ethanol cars had a problem on their hands, because no one wanted to buy them," said Henry Joseph Jr., head of the engineering program for Volkswagen of Brazil. "Ethanol cars went all the way from more than 90 percent of sales to less than 1 percent..."
And from this more recent source...
http://www.naturalnews.com/024082_Brazil_ethanol_oil_independence.html
Brazil's Oil Independence May Not Be a Model Worth Emulating
Saturday, September 06, 2008
"Brazil is having another banner year. It has reached energy equilibrium, exporting as much oil as it imports. Its production of domestic oil is at an all time high, as is the production of sugar based ethanol. At the service stations, ethanol is for sale right along side of the gas pumps. Brazil is also the destination of U.S. lawmakers and venture capitalists looking for America's future. As the by products of Brazil's quest for energy independence become known, it may be time to question the zeal with which some American's seek to emulate this model..."
Read the entire article to find out the "by products" of their quest. Here is part of the negative effects of ethanol production...
"...Another part of this capital was used to purchase more than 20 million hectares (1 hectare = 2.47 acres) of Brazilian land, particularly in the mid-west regions and the Brazilian agricultural frontier. The rest went to the Amazon. The result is exploitation of Brazil's abundant natural resources and biodiversity.
This exploitation can be best characterized as agricultural monoculture. Eucalyptus, a plant extremely useful for electricity generation and ethanol, is to be cultured exclusively throughout a section of the country in the south all the way to the border with Uruguay. Thousands of hectares of industrial plantations will be destroyed to create what is in effect a green desert. Sugarcane monoculture for ethanol production and export will also be expanded, including 77 new ethanol processing plants that will be built along four major pipelines..."
Oh yeah Eric... and all that Sugarcane and Eucalyptus farming and all the farming run-off and the taking of the Amazon also hurts fish... a LOT more than oil rigs which are actually homes to thousands of fish.
You seem to want the government to be the solution to all of America's problems when in fact, the government is the cause of most of America's problems... not the solution. All of the things you complain about in your last reply... "no money for social security, ... alternative energy, ... health(care), ... war..." are ALL GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS that you admit are broken.. although I personally think our war machine works quite well! ;-) Well.. who do *you* think has managed to run them all into the ground... that's right.. your so-called all-knowing, all-powerful government. So how can you possibly think the government can do something else right... so-called "green energy"... when nearly everything else they do fails. If it wasn't for the private sector being involved in many other government programs, those programs would likely fail as well.
I don't have any hard feelings. Maybe I'm blessed but I can have an intelligent debate without getting mad or having any hard feelings. I may not invite everyone to a "beer summit at taxpayer expense" afterwards but I won't have any hard feelings. I'll still sleep like a baby tonight... although I heard a comedian once explain how that analogy is so NOT TRUE since babies don't sleep very long between their two hour scream-fests for feeding times. LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve S
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:25 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Bill,
The price of oil is not set by the oil companies. It is set by the market and what people are willing to pay for it. By people, I'm not talking you and me, but those who make their living buying and selling oil for others, be they countries or companies. The industrialization of Asia, particularly China, has placed a new strain on the supplies of oil and help cause prices to rise.
While there may have been some deregulation of oil, it is still a heavily regulated business. The real problem is that the environmentalists have made it very difficult for companies to drill in this country, on shore and off shore. Apparently, there is a large reservoir of oil under the upper Midwest of this country just waiting to be tapped. Some think that it could supply this country will all the oil it needs, and more, into the foreseeable future. However, no one has been allowed to tap it to even test the viability of drilling in that area, and to get solid estimates about how much oil there may be there.
Presume a gallon of regular gas cost $0.33 in 1965. Today, that same gallon would cost $2.28 according to http://www.usinflationcalculatior.com/. Using http://www.gasbuddy.com/, it looks like the price of regular around here is about $2.69. So, yes, prices have increased, but not by as much as most people think. (My current car requires premium, so I really had no idea what regular went for.)
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve Szabo
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:42 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Eric,
I hate to burst your bubble, but there is not an electric car made that could get me through one day on one charge of the batteries, though the Tesla comes close. Other alternative fuels are non-starters, where do I purchase them when I need them?
Where is your proof that the oil companies have been buying up patents for alternative fuels?
As far as your assertion that GM had to pull an electric car from the market in the '90's (I do not even recall them marketing one, and I used to be a big car freak), it was probably more to consumer acceptance, or, more correctly, absence of consumer acceptance of the vehicle. Whether it was a design issue, or the fact it was electric, I would not know, since I do not recall such a car.
The fact is that every alternative fuel thus far developed has drawbacks that will prevent, and have prevented them from becoming acceptable to the general public. None of them have proven to be as inexpensive as gasoline (or diesel) or produce the amount of power per given unit as gasoline. Until these factors are overcome, you can go ahead and blame the lack of a viable alternative fuel on the oil companies quashing them (the other popular target are the car companies themselves).
I'll return you to your regularly scheduled aquatic discussions. Don't forget that algae is being investigated as an energy source.
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 6:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Hi Eric and all,
How very interesting you should bring up the electric car and there was also a car that run on water. About 6 years ago, CNN news brought that subject up and had people call in (remember the call CNN days, they still do it but very limited). My brother in law called them and asked why the car industry took it off the market and what did they have to replace it and why there was a cover up about it, believe it or not, CNN news would not discuss that and hung up on him. What does that tell you?
Big industry runs this world and people have allowed it to happen. They have the people of the USA so frightened and bullied into submission that they I think would agree to anything. We do not live in slavery, but aha, do we? Mental slavery is just as bad as physical slavery.
There is very little Obama can really do, the table has been set long before he came into office and that table may not be able to be corrected if the setting is wrong or if someone more powerful than him does not want it corrected. President Obama is in a very difficult situation and I would not want to walk in his shoes for the simple reason, he is damned if he does and damned if he does not.
The world is a horrible mess and it is not getting better and the powers that be do not care, it goes way beyond most people's wisdom and knowledge in this.
We need to get off this subject matter, it will frighten people and I am sure none of us wish to do that.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of caroline c
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:53 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.. You are the man.. WOW.. and on my fish list. Thank you for saying what I cannot.. may I send this to other friends.. I am on the tea party list.. but, you say it better than anyone.. thank you.. thank you....
caroline in california
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:45 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Feel free to forward... or better yet, just give them my Rants and Raves blog link, which is mostly political rants and news but also includes product reviews, computer tech articles, etc., http://lennyvasbinder.blogspot.com/, as I'm sure this thread will make it to my blog in the next day or two. I'm actually copying/pasting as I type and editing out any names/identifiers other than my own... to protect the innocent and maybe the guilty as well. LOL
Fish... and this is all Amber's fault! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:59 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I don't entertain conspiracy theories for very long so I won't comment on them but... although the "Manchurian Candidate-with-a-twist" does pop into my head from time to time. LOL JUST KIDDDDINNNGGGG!!! LOL
Then there are the major problems of charging all of the electric cars if all fuel powered vehicles were replaced today. The majority of our electricity comes from coal powered electric plants (since we haven't built a nuclear plant in 30 years) so we would be doing away with relatively clean burning gasoline and replace that with burning coal for the electricity... and we'd have to burn a LOT more coal to charge up all the cars. That means "MINE BABY, MINE!" would be the new mantra instead of "DRILL BABY, DRILL!" ;-)
Of course, I'm in favor of doing ALL OF THE ABOVE when it comes to energy but the DOMESTIC low-cost and viable energy sources should continue to grow until we can lessen our dependence on foreign oil and then we can spend those BILLIONS OR TRILLIONS of dollars that OUR GOVERNMENT makes off of the taxes from all that domestic energy to look at longer term so-called "green energy" solutions.
FISH!!! And remember this is all Amber's fault! LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
file://steve//
The retail price of gas also includes Local, State and Federal taxes, that in some areas, raise the price by nearly $1.00 a gallon. In Louisiana, taxes increase the price by nearly 60 cents a gallon. That equates to effectively, a 30% tax rate!!! since the gas would only be $2.00 without the 60 cents in taxes so the price of gas is actually MUCH CHEAPER than in 1965 since they didn't have all the taxes.. or hardly any on gas back then. Many other areas are MUCH HIGHER in the amount of taxes they add so that the people don't even realize how much they are paying. We had a retailer down here who put stickers on all of his pumps itemizing the various taxes and fees, per gallon, and he found out that it is AGAINST THE LAW for him to publish this information at the pump but there are websites where folks can find out what they are paying...
Here's a snip from Wikipedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#United_States
United States
Fuel taxes in the United States vary by state. For the first quarter of 2009, the mean state gasoline tax is 27.2 cents per US gallon, plus 18.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 45.6 cents per US gallon (12.0 ¢/L). For diesel, the mean state tax is 26.6 cents per US gallon plus an additional 24.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 50.8 cents US per gallon (13.4 ¢/L).[7] There are also a few states that charge sales tax on top of the excise taxes and the retail price.
More here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States
Here's a history of the Federal Gas Tax and States followed suit with their own taxes later on. We can thank Hoover for the Federal Gas Tax... I wonder if that's where the vacuum cleaner name came from... since they both suck! LOL
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/gastax.cfm
The Revenue Act of 1932 - "... Together, Hoover and Mills formulated the most brutal peacetime revenue bill the country had ever seen. The bill called for a rise in estate taxes from 23 percent to 45 percent, an increase in personal income taxes from 23 percent to 45 percent, a rise in corporation taxes, a sales tax, a drastic modification of capital gains advantages..."
Man, this is starting to look kind of fishy! (I wanted to get fish into the reply without relying on the trusty old "FISH!" ending. LOL)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Steve S
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:15 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
For most people, the price they see at the pump is the price of the gas.
Thought of taxes does not come into it at all. I do not know if the federal tax has risen since 1965, stayed the same or declined, but most states have raised their taxes on the fuel since then. It is still amazing to most people that they are only paying a slightly higher amount for gas than they did when they were younger.
Do keep in mind that the American public, in general, is completely unaware of many things that affect their daily lives, one of the reasons the politicians can hoodwink them nearly any time. Most have no idea how the market works, that oil companies have very little effect on pricing, much as is the case of farmers, who get a very small proportion of each dollar spent on food for their hard work in producing it.
I probably should look up some of the old ads for fish I have in various catalogues and magazines hanging around and do the same analysis on them to see what the difference in price is today from back then.
\\Steve//
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:45 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I think people need to be frightened so maybe they will actually take action. Logic and reason hasn’t worked.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:14 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Americans are frightened at record numbers! Haven't you been hearing all the GREAT news about the Tea Party Activists???
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of AquaHobby
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:15 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
OK I have said enough about this, it is getting mean now and there is no reason for that. you believe what you wish, I could care less. These were my opinions and that is all, I will not contribute to any further chatter on this as it will go on and on and on and get no where, just like the energy crisis. When you become dependent on another, that other becomes a parasite upon you and that is what the USA has allowed other countries to do to us, make us dependent on them. But you believe what you wish and in 35 years if I am still alive, I will come back and say, I told you so. All this nonsense was said 40 years ago and we are no further now then we were then. Enough said...
You all have a good day
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:12 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
It seems we actually agree that America should be doing everything possible to become energy independent. There are still PLENTY of proven oil and coal reserves that haven't been touched yet so those should be harvested while we start building LOTS of nuclear plants and working on other so-called "green energy" sources like wind and solar to find out if they are viable before investing government (aka taxpayer) money into them. If they are viable, the private sector and local utilities will gladly jump on the bandwagon. If they aren't viable, let the private sector and investors take the risk, not the taxpayers... we're paying for enough government boondoggles already!!!
Further, have you ever thought about what might happen to the "wind supply" or wind patterns when we put up thousands of those big wind turbines all over the open plains of America? In the long run, they could disrupt the wind patterns and ultimately affect weather patterns. And all of them solar collectors are HUGE sources of heat that could also affect weather patterns much like the heat generated by the "concrete jungles" (cities) affect the local weather in their areas with more occurrences of afternoon thunder showers. There are global-warming scientists (that's almost an oxymoron.. lol) studying these possibilities already. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/302/5651/1719
Maybe you will be the lucky one and not be around to see the man-made disasters caused by all these wind turbines and solar cell farms. I'll still be around in 35 years to see what happens... if America lasts that long... or will it be Amerika by then. ;-)
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:36 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Eric said, among other things...
"The car that was pulled was pretty popular amongst those who were driving it. They made a pretty huge deal over GM taking the car back. Check out he movie.I think I have the title right."Who killed the electric car". ( http://ev1.org/chevron.htm )"
Lenny says...
This car simply was not viable. If not for HUGE government subsidies (1.25 BILLION DOLLARS) and State mandates (mainly Kalifornia), these cars would not have been built and people would not have been able to afford them, which is why GM had to take them back. Some folks complained that they weren't given the option to buy their cars at the end of their three year leases but none of them were willing to pay the $80,000 to $100,000 price tag either... and GM didn't want to have to carry the price tag of producing parts for the few remaining cars... not to mention the potential liability issues. Then when you factor in the cost of electricity and the amount of COAL that has to be burned to charge up these electric cars, they create just as much pollution as gas powered cars. They simply were not a viable alternative to gas powered vehicles. Even todays hybrid vehicles are being subsidized by the government or their prices would not be viable either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
"While customer reaction to the EV1 was positive, GM believed that electric cars occupied an unprofitable niche of the automobile market as they were only able to lease 800 units in face of production costs of US$1 billion over four years.[9]...
...GM based the lease payments for the EV1 on an initial vehicle price of US$33,995.[5] Lease payments ranged from around $299 to $574 per month, depending on the availability of state rebates.[citation needed] Since GM did not offer consumers the option to purchase at the end of the lease, the car's residual value was never established, making it impossible to determine the actual full purchase price or replacement value. One industry official said that each EV1 cost the company about US$80,000, including research, development and other associated costs;[60] other estimates placed the vehicle's actual cost as high as $100,000.[5] GM stated the cost of the EV1 program at slightly less than $500 million before marketing and sales costs, and over $1 billion in total; a portion of this cost was defrayed by the Clinton Administration's $1.25 billion Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV) program..."
I'm not going to address all the other links since many of them are also based on conspiracy theories.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:26 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
That's fear mongering with lies and mistruths and getting people to vote against their own self interests by corporatist politicians and public figures. People need to see the truth and be fearful of the path their self imposed state of stupidity is leading us..
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
It can also be very easily achievable by installing wither solar panels or using wind turbines on site and not even using any of the energy off of the grid to accomplish this.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:57 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You still don't accept the FACT that without government subsidies, solar panels and wind turbines are not viable. 99% of the people that are putting these things on their homes/properties are ONLY doing it due to HUGE tax credits or outright subsidies... not withstanding the companies making these things are also getting tax credits or outright subsidies on the production end. Take away the subsidies and they aren't viable. The payback would be hundreds of years instead of the 10-20 year payback for the subsidized products. If we subsidize everybody getting a wind turbine and solar farm on their rooftop, while you may not be paying your electric company, you'll be paying FAR MORE due to government overspending, deficit spending and the interest costs on our soon to be $20 TRILLION national debt.
My monthly electric bill runs around $100.00 a month. My share of the national debt is around $100,000.00. I can pay a lot of electric bills with that $100K.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:33 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Disrupt the wind patterns.ok.now that was funny Lenny...where did you pull that out of (besides a certain orifice? hehehe)
The difference in the concrete jungle is that the energy doesn't go anywhere and just gets transferred back into the atmosphere creating temperature anomalies. With solar, it gets transferred into electricity or used to heat water like your water heater. Remember the Law of Conservation of Energy.energy is neither gained nor destroyed.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:31 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I think your "certain orifice" (quoting you) also applies to much of what you've said. I just didn't go there with you... but now that you've brought it up. ;-)
I didn't make it up. There are actually left-leaning scientists using government grant money to study this potential wind anomaly. For the folks downwind of these massive wind turbine farms, instead of a normal breeze, the wind will have been disrupted and disturbed by hundreds or thousands of HUGE spinning fan blades. The wind pattern coming off of a wind turbine comes off in a MUCH different pattern than the wind going into the wind turbine. This is why they can't have them too close together. I don't know all of the aeronautical terms but on a different scale, it's the same thing that can happen when one jet flies into the jet stream of another jet and the wind is so disturbed that it causes the following jet's engines to have MAJOR problems. The same thing happens to one boat following another boat with the water being disturbed by the first boats propellers. I think it's called cavitation when it happens to boats.
And don't forget all of the birds that are killed by these wind turbines every year.
"The latest independent reports estimate the number of birds killed by wind turbines at about 100,000 per year. That's according to a 2007 report from the National Research Council called "Environmental Impacts of Wind-Energy Projects.
The American Bird Conservancy estimated in 2003 that between 10,000 and 40,000 birds were killed each year at wind farms across the country, about 80 percent of which were songbirds and 10 percent birds of prey. 'With the increased capacity over the last seven years, we now estimate that 100,000 – 300,000 birds are killed by wind turbines each year,' said Conservancy spokesman Robert Johns."
Of course, if I lived near a wind turbine farm, I'd just send Granny Clampet out to collect me some road-kill (or would that be fan-kill???) every day for some good road-kill stew! Hopefully, most of the feathers got knocked off in the process so I have less plucking to do. LOL
As far as your comment that the heat is used to heat water, the last I've seen of the BIG solar panel farms, there's not a lot of plumbing running off of them to nearby home's hot water heaters. Those farms collect LOTS OF HEAT and there are many ways that they are trying to solve the HEAT issue... but what about the long term effects of having all of this heat build up in areas that didn't have it in the past?
Further, how will the capture of all of this sunlight and heat affect the earth. Right now, the sun and heat from the sun goes into the earth's ecology but if the world starts putting MASSIVE solar panel farms everywhere there is now farmland or other open space, the sun will not be hitting the earth in those areas, likely affecting the ecology in those areas.
Whether it's oil, coal, nuclear, wind, sun or any other source of energy, the old "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature" saying is still applicable and should not be dismissed... as is "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"... so for those folks who think there is a so-called "green energy" solution, who knows what kind of environmental damage will be caused by these so-called "green energy" concepts. I'm not saying we shouldn't explore other options, but don't go blindly rushing into these unknown concepts when they start to be used on a larger scale.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:29 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And I should add this snip from the Wall Street Journal...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574376543308399048.html
Windmills Are Killing Our Birds (2009)
On Aug. 13, ExxonMobil pleaded guilty in federal court to killing 85 birds that had come into contact with crude oil or other pollutants in uncovered tanks or waste-water facilities on its properties. The birds were protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which dates back to 1918. The company agreed to pay $600,000 in fines and fees.
ExxonMobil is hardly alone in running afoul of this law. Over the past two decades, federal officials have brought hundreds of similar cases against energy companies. In July, for example, the Oregon-based electric utility PacifiCorp paid $1.4 million in fines and restitution for killing 232 eagles in Wyoming over the past two years. The birds were electrocuted by poorly-designed power lines.
Yet there is one group of energy producers that are not being prosecuted for killing birds: wind-power companies. And wind-powered turbines are killing a vast number of birds every year.
A July 2008 study of the wind farm at Altamont Pass, Calif., estimated that its turbines kill an average of 80 golden eagles per year. The study, funded by the Alameda County Community Development Agency, also estimated that about 10,000 birds—nearly all protected by the migratory bird act—are being whacked every year at Altamont...
...But that said, the carnage there likely represents only a fraction of the number of birds killed by windmills. Michael Fry of the American Bird Conservancy estimates that U.S. wind turbines kill between 75,000 and 275,000 birds per year. Yet the Justice Department is not bringing cases against wind companies.
"Somebody has given the wind industry a get-out-of-jail-free card," Mr. Fry told me. "If there were even one prosecution," he added, the wind industry would be forced to take the issue seriously.
(END SNIP)
Is this because the mostly spineless Republican pol's are afraid to stand up to the mostly hypocrite Democrat pol's... or is it because both sides of the aisle in Washington get their bribes from the energy companies and it's ONLY politically correct to attack oil companies and standard electric companies and that Republican pol's don't like attacking any big business and Democrat pol's dare not attack so-called "green energy" companies or fear the wrath of the tree-huggers surrounding their homes and picketing their offices.
ExxonMobile got hit with $600K in fines for 85 birds, which averages over $7,000 per bird, so the windmill farm industry should be paying over $700 MILLION each year based on the average figure of 100,000 birds a year... or as much as $1.9 TRILLION based on 275,000 birds. Now, factor those fines into the cost of the electricity they are producing and all of a sudden, their prices aren't so affordable.
The above shows the PURE HYPOCRISY of the so-called "green energy" movement. They can't play on a level playing field and wouldn't exist without LOTS OF GOVERNMENT-TO-CORPORATE WELFARE going to BIG GREEN ENERGY BUSINESSES. How can the left possibly like all that corporate welfare? Oh yeah... they love Government-To-Corporate Welfare when it's going to them and their businesses or non-profit corporations like Acorn.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:14 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
A couple of panels and a single wind turbine will create enough for one house (if you are ever up in the Chicago area Lenny.I'd love to show you my neighbor's house. The have a turbine and 2 solar panels and they make money off of the excess electricity they don't use by selling it to ComEd).they do already have working solar and wind farms that contribute a lot of energy to the grid. They are working on building even more in the SW.
The farms don't have to be right in the city, just like the electrical generation plants do not have to be right in the city. In LA, there are a lot of open desert areas that can be used quite efficiently and even with little harm to the environment. You can put turbine farms offshore. They can even make use to tidal generators on the coasts. In big cities, they can make turbines that can be attached to the tops of buildings. If you have ever been in a big city, you would know that it is pretty windy.even on a calm day, when you get on top of a sky scraper. Even if it doesn't reduce fossil fuel use 100%, it does reduce it considerably.
As far as this leftist elitist BS red herring (great way to work in a fish hehehe). here's an infesting article for you to peruse. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/GlobalWarming/story?id=2906888&page=1
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:35 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Ummmm... you're losing your street-cred fast here. I can promise you that there are NO "desert areas" in Louisiana... lots of good desserts... but absolutely NO deserts.
I think I've addressed the rest of your assertions.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:58 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Sure Lenny.People have been using solar and wind for a lot longer than there have been tax credits.next piece of conservative BS?
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:44 PM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
ALL of the modern and recent solar and wind technology is HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED by government programs... from studies being done by many universities to R & D at many corporations to the actual cost of production and consumer purchase of these so-called "green energy" products. Hell, BHO even has the subsidies and tax credits for caulking windows now. Folks should caulk their own damned windows without expecting other taxpayers to subsidize them.
Thanks for recognizing my conservatism! I'll sleep much better tonight!
I don't know what Barbara Streisand (your comment about BS) has to do with my conservatism though.. she's a typical left-wing liberal hypocrite.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:56 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
In otherwords you really can't address the other links.typical conservative cop put when faced with facts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:38 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
A bunch of URL's, without any hint as to what might be enclosed in them, are NOT facts.
At least provide a snip of what you are hinting at or relying on in the link you provide... or to at least prove you've actually read the content before I'm going to open the link and read through and reply to a possibly LONG page of opinion or conspiracy theories.
As you've seen, when I reply with my "facts", I include multiple sources and usually reliable or well referenced sources, not just likely opinion pages. If every website was a fact, then you'd be a good conservative by reading my other blog since according to you, it's all fact and not opinion.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric R
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:43 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Didn't notice the link on the bottom of the page in reference to wind turbines. http://www.currykerlinger.com/studies.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny [mailto:goldlenny@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:44 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
I provide you links and references to the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the NY Times, the National Research Council and the American Bird Conservancy, etc.... and you provide a link to a currykerlinger.com ... WTF is a currykerlinger.com? Is he any relation to curlylarrymoe.com? LOL
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:44 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Didn't realize you meant Louisiana.thought you meant Los Angeles since you were talking about cities like New York.Louisiana isn't a city Lenny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:13 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
You need to re-read what you're replying to. This entire discussion started with me saying that I'm starting up a Gulf Of Mexico biotope tank with oil floating on the top, dead fish, birds and turtles floating on top and a little burning oil well.... as a joke about what's happening "down here", since I live "down here" in Louisiana. I've made countless references to me living down here dozens of times in this thread and hundreds... no, make that thousands of times in this forum. Your reply saying there were "deserts in LA" was a direct reply to my reply which included this SECOND paragraph:
"Down here in the New Orleans area, we have dozens of oil refineries running 24/7 and they are refining LOTS of Louisiana oil, although there are many tankers of crude oil coming up the Mississippi River or more often, for the super-tankers, off-loading their supply at the LOOP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Offshore_Oil_Port."
Then in paragraph three, I made reference to "New York and L.A." (note the periods following the L and the A, which stands for Los Angeles, the city, since LA stands for Louisiana). Of course, I didn't say New York City, which is what I was referring to when you look at the context of that paragraph talking about limited land area, so maybe my failure to include the word "City" or not refer to New York as N.Y. was confusing to you since New York is also the State... but even in your below reply, you say "were talking about cities like New York" so you know I was talking about the city of New York and the obvious city of L.A... so now I'm confused about how you could have been confused.
Your "deserts in LA" comment did not include periods so you were obviously referring to Louisiana, not Los Angeles.... right? But since we both know I was talking about cities, by your own admission noted above, there are also NO deserts in the City of L.A. either... or did you mean to type CA as in California or did you mean the County of Los Angeles, which is not referred to as "L.A." very often, if at all, and if you did a poll of what "L.A." stands for, you'll get a high percentage, of those that have a clue, saying it means Los Angeles? Of course, if you poll the people in L.A., such as Jay Leno does on the JayWalking segments, most of them might answer "Lunar Acclipse"... but if they guessed "Lost Angels", at least they'd be close. LMAO
Just to make sure I was right about NO deserts in L.A. either, I did a search on the Wikipedia page for the City of Los Angeles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles and there was only one hit for the word "desert" and it was to a "Further Reading" link to a book called "Cadillac Desert", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
On Behalf Of Eric Roberts
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:32 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
Lets see.Exxon was fines because it killed birds as a result of their negligence that caused a major oil spill. The electric company was fined because birds died as a result of faulty wires. The drop in the bucket that comes from turbines is not due to negligence. Nice try by spouting from yet another conservative mouth piece.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Lenny V. aka GoldLenny
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:43 AM
To: 'AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
There you go again... not reading my well referenced and quoted material.
ExxonMobil was fined due to some birds landing in their "uncovered tanks" and/or "waste water facilities", not for an oil spill.
The electric company, PacifiCorp, was fined for allegedly having "poorly designed lines", which I guess could be extrapolated to mean faulty but the power lines worked as intended, providing power to the people so they weren't faulty... just possibly poorly designed according to some leftist Judge in Kalifornia, which we all know has some of the most whacked out leftist Judges in the country and especially on the Federal 9th Circuit Court Of Appeals... whose decisions are the most overturned decisions of any circuit in America.
I don't know how you can say "The drop in the bucket that comes from turbines..." when ExxonMobil was fined for 85 birds and Pacificorp was fined for 232 birds AND wind turbines kill between 75,000 and 275,000 birds a year.... according to the American Bird Conservancy, which I can assure you is NOT a conservative mouth piece. If anything, it's a bleeding heart bird-hugging group. Maybe you misunderstood their website title, "American Bird Conservancy: Bird Conservation In The Americas" http://www.abcbirds.org/. Conservation is NOT the same as Conservative or Conservatism... but it's an interesting comparison... the Bird Conservancy wants to conserve or save bird lives in America and Conservatives want to conserve our tax dollars and save innocent human lives in America.
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:46 PM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
And you did specify Los Angeles."the folks in New York and L.A.???" Never saw Louisiana abbreviated as L.A. only as LA. I will assume that was a typo on your part.
From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:19 AM
To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Is it just me....
See my reply, just sent a moment ago.
I NEVER used "L.A." as an abbreviation for Louisiana... except for maybe in your mind... but you did use LA as an abbreviation for Los Angeles, in your own words.
Your confusion is getting the best of you now. You better get some sleep now!
Lenny Vasbinder
Fish Blog - http://goldlenny.blogspot.com/
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